This site is a blog for musicians and music industry people. It is a free educational resource and it is also the way I advertise my music consulting services. I am an entertainment professional with deep roots in the music industry. Throughout my music career I have been a major label A&R representative, a music supervisor, an artist manager, a reality show producer, a bass player and the head of a digital record label.
An older interview with Derek Sivers but it has rather timeless advice.
Derek Sivers is best known as the founder of CD baby but he is also an experienced musician and Berklee college of music graduate something he accomplished in only two and a half years. Derek recently sold CD Baby to Discmakers and is now building up some new businesses. I had the pleasure of meeting Derek recently through a mutual friend and I continue to be more and more impressed by his drive and ability to focus.
First of Derek, thanks for your time. Just a bit of background for the few people who might not know can you describe how you became a successful touring musician?
DS:
I just said yes to everything, and pursued everything. Soon that got me a well-paid gig in a circus, and as a guitarist for Japanese pop star Ryuichi Sakamoto. In 1995 I learned about the college market and got some tips on how to crack that nut, so I threw myself into that completely, and ended up getting hired by over 300 colleges in the Northeast. That’s about it.
What do you think you did differently or better than your peers that got your music career off of the ground (and the same question for your business career)
DS:
I read a lot of books about marketing. I learned how to take books that were written for straight-up MBA business types and adapt their lessons to a music career. This single thing probably set me apart from my peers.
See my recommended book list (and detailed notes)
If you’re not putting aside the time to read lately, you should. It really helps give you all kinds of new insights that aren’t just influenced by what everyone else in your industry is doing.
Did anything about being a touring musician teach you the skills you would later apply to being a successful business owner?
DS:
Yeah – it’s not much different, is it? Learning about working with people. Setting expectations, communicating clearly, being strict but not an ass, keeping motivation up, taking responsibility for everything, and understanding that a lot of people just flake out.
During your time at CD Baby you worked with tons of musicians who went on to great success Did you identify a trait or handful of traits (other than talent) that lead you to believe someone was going to be successful as a musician?
DS:
Definitely. The successful indie artists are almost always looking at everything from the other person’s point of view. When contacting the media, they’re thinking of it from the point of view of the writer. They talk in terms of helping that person make a great story that readers will respond to. When contacting venues, they’re thinking of it from the point of view of the venue owner trying to make it a big profitable night.
It’s a funny balance of selfless and selfish. Ambition through selflessness. Or a selfish realization that the best thing you can do for your career is whatever’s best for others.
I noticed that you have extraordinary focus. When you set your mind on learning something or doing something you seem to be able to shut out the world and focus on the task at hand. You also seem unconcerned with what other people are doing in the space you are working in. Was this something that came natural to you and if not any advice on this front?
DS:
Focus is hard but important. It’s so tempting to just surf and check for the next email. But I’ve found all the big rewards come from the times you shut out the world and do something difficult.
Maybe it comes from being a musician, which requires thousands of hours locked away in a practice room, working hard on your technique.
You have managed to build up quite an online following for yourself as an entrepreneur both on your blog and on social media sites. While some of this probably had to do with your hands on approach building a thriving company- was there more to it than that? Any advice for musicians on how they should be communicating with fans and potential fans to gain followers based on your experiences?
DS:
Ah…. I think it’s something about being comfortable and casual, while still trying to make every sentence really worth someone’s time.
My online presence isn’t about me – it’s about them. Every time I post something, whether blog or Tweet, I’m thinking, “What could I post that’d be really useful to people?”
Whether I always achieve that or not, it makes me a pretty useful person to follow.
From your website I notice you are pursuing a number of new ventures which of these do you think will be the first to launch and when can we expect to see it?
DS:
I’m really focusing on Muckwork. See http://sivers.org/muckwork and http://muckwork.com
The other ones didn’t get a huge response, so I might just let ‘em go.
The big dumb question… What do you think is next for the music business as the value of recorded music continues to decline? Have you seen any models out there that give you hope?
DS:
Oh I write all about that, here
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If you haven’t already- check out Derek Sivers at http://sivers.org
Hey all,
I’ve been busy preparing an e-book and a few new products so I was unable to get to a brand new post today – apologies. That said I came across this brief interview I did with my friend Bryan from late 2009. His advice holds up and as I’ve gone from five hundred visitors per month to more than five hundred visitors per day (thank you very much by the way) chances are most of you never saw this interview anyway.
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I connected with my friend Bryan Ledbetter who runs a thriving interactive design firm in Winston-Salem, NC called Airtype Studio. When I first met Bryan he was drumming for his band Evoka who spent a great deal of time on the road. I couldn’t think of anyone who might have more feedback on websites for musicians than Bryan as he has been both a musician and a designer. He was booked up for months when we last connected but he did manage to volunteer the following to me in an email about what not to do with your website as a musician.
• Your band is a “brand” just like Toyota & Apple. stop acting like it’s just rock & roll. The way you present & market your band is sometimes more important than the music itself.
• Stop hiring your “bud” to design your band’s albums & websites. it makes you look cheap & like a joke. Would you let your “bud” who plays guitar on the porch fill in on stage at the biggest show of your life? You spend thousands on your recordings, why do you think it’s OK to skimp on your image?
• Your website is the most effective tool you have. Invest in it & own it.
• Stop relying on MySpace & ReverbNation to be your band’s website. these are great tools, but that’s what they are “tools”.
• Step up to the plate & hire a professional firm to brand & create your interactive presence. you’ll be amazed at the difference. Seek out a hip firm who’s “famous” for what they do. You will get more mileage out of your site, you’ll look as good if not better than all the big bands out there and your fans will love you more.
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I recently sat down with my friend Ron Bienstock of Bienstock & Michael, P.C. to talk about getting a music business off of the ground from a legal point of view. Ron is a very experienced entertainment lawyer who has worked with Billy Joel, Simple Plan, Dream Theater, the Goo Goo dolls and numerous instrument and music equipment manufacturers. Ron is also one of the more talented bass players I have ever met and still plays out regularly.
So Ron, I wanted to ask you what the most important things for a band to do to set up their business from a legal perspective. Is it registering their songs? Is it registering with a Performance Royalties organization like ASCAP or BMI? What is it that artists should be doing to make sure their businesses are in order from a legal standpoint?
Ron:
I think I may have a different perspective on this than others but I think that the most important thing is the name. Obviously, if it is a band’s name that we are discussing it is a different issue than a surname. If you are “Matt Schneckman” there may not be a whole lot of Matt Schneckman’s competing with you. If however you are “the righteous dudes” you may not be able to use that name and the value and goodwill you create in the name is everything that you are in the marketplace. Try to pick a name that you can own, exploit and remember. There have been some very interesting names that are seven and eight words long that might not be the easiest to remember.
How do you go about ensuring that you can get rights to a name?
Ron:
Trademark searches by a professional, most likely a law firm. I hope people wouldn’t use any of the online services. They tend not to have lawyers working there. There is usually a gal named Sue who you call who says “that’s cool” but that’s not always going to be a real search. You need to make sure the name is clear in a particular classification- it is kind of sophisticated now. Most of the artists I deal with aren’t really clear about what the international classes mean. Most bands I would say would want to clear a name in International class 41 which is live entertainment services.
What should that trademark search and clearance cost?
Ron:
It shouldn’t be more than $500-$600 and it should come with a written report to back that up, hopefully written by an attorney. An attorney will give you advice as to whether the name is open and the second that it is clear you should apply for the trademark. If you are doing it on your own it will cost you no less than $325 because that is the fee that the government charges. Try to use the law firm that did the search (if you like them) because they will be familiar with your application process. So making sure the name is usable and secure would be my first piece of advice…
Another important tip – No you can’t send an undershirt to yourself in the mail with your band name printed on it in Sharpie and say that it is poor man’s trademark, that does not exist… This is a common discussion I have.
(I say nothing but distinctly remember trying this trick with my band demos at age 19. I then find myself wondering how Ron went from an earlier conversation about the throw on one of his bass cabinets, to how his swimming was the weakest part of his Triathlon to the current conversation about music law so seamlessly. It all added up to me thinking that if there are lots of people out there as smart and multi-talented as Ron that perhaps I should be somewhere with a name tag and a paper hat helping people from behind a shiny glass counter, struggling to fetch them their desired items and failing to give them correct change)
Ron:
There is no such thing as poor man’s trademark. There is no such thing as poor man’s anything. There’s just uninformed person’s something…
(Maybe they will eventually let me play with the French fry machine at my new gig)
Ron:
Another big issue is not, surprisingly, the registration of your copyrights. I think most Americans are fascinated by the concept of copyright infringement for all the wrong reasons. I always say if someone very well known had access to your material (which is the key part of copyright infringement) and they produced a substantially similar composition and made money with it- it would be the greatest thing that ever happened to you but these are uncommon events.
Most people don’t know that their work is already copy written when it is in fixed form under our copyright act. So again, the sending of the disc to yourself in the mail is…
A waste of postage.
Ron:
Yes. So, my second issue is what entity will you be if you are group?
I don’t care what genre you are in which is another common mistake actually. People often say something like “Oh, we are a country band so it’s not the same as being a rock band.” My response is always that sarcastic “Really?”
It is the same in terms of a trademark I take it…
Ron:
It is in terms of your trademark and in terms of your corporate structure… I don’t care what the genre is. It doesn’t matter if you are death metal klezmer. You are performing, you are earning and you will have taxes. You don’t want to be a sole proprietorship and you don’t want to be individuals because then you are a partnership by default. But you do really want to establish an entity because the entity will own the trademark.
So what entity do you recommend for a band?
Ron:
Well, because of the state of tax issues in many states we are leaning towards LLC almost all the time. However with an LLC you need an operating agreement. So an LLC costs you a bit more. Some states will require you to pay for the publication of the LLC.
Oh, and those are pricey in New York, I did mine about a year ago.
Ron:
Yea, that can be pricey. So contrary to the books that you may read- there is no shortcut. So after your entity you will need your intra band agreement, the agreement amongst the band members. Whether it’s two members or nine members (the later is when you desperately need it) it has to be established so you can understand the relationships between one another, who comes and goes and what happens… This way I don’t get letters from the real estate attorney in Poughkeepsie who thinks it’s kind of cool that he’s in the rock world for the moment. You can avoid all of these issues. Keeping your band together should be a priority.
Then we can talk about copyright registration, which is fine, we can get to it and it’s not that difficult. Anyone can do it. It’s all online at LOC.gov You probably don’t need to have a legal expense there.
After those things are in order then you should select a performance royalty organization (ASCAP, BMI, SEASAC). You have to register as a writer AND as a publisher. And once all of these things (the name, the entity, the intra band agreement and affiliating with a Performance Royalties Organization) are in place you just have to organize yourself into a functioning music business entity. From there we can talk about management and agency contracts and synchronization licenses etc but we are now ready to go. You will have properly named and functioning publishing company, you are set up as a writer with the performance royalties organizations that will collect on your behalf…
In your experience is there any difference between the Performance Royalties organizations? To me it has always seemed like ASCAP and BMI were like Coke and Pepsi while SEASAC was more liking the refreshing taste of RC Cola and by that I mean that by pure volume BMI and ASCAP dominate the marketplace. In your experience is there any tangible difference between them? Is there a certain type of artist that should be on one PRO vs. another or does it come down to personal relationships…
Ron:
The differences are who you feel comfortable with. Have you met someone there you like? I hope they will be there for a bit… (***For those really new to music – music companies go through employees like J-Lo goes through husbands)
There are wonderful people working at all three organizations who really care. Meet all three and decide who you like. Yes, on sheer volume ASCAP and BMI probably have some dominant structure but there are devoted people at all three places… Find someone you like and go with them. If you are lucky enough that you performance royalty income is substantial you will have your choice to opt out if it doesn’t work with one and you can go to another. In my experience, I have friends at all three and I think they all care and want to do right by people.
When is the time to sign up for performer royalties which seems to have some up more in the digital age when is it time to go to SoundExchange and make sure you are in the phone book there so to speak.
Ron:
When my firm gets people signs people up with the PROs we do sound exchange right then and there. We also do AARC (Aliance of Artists and Recording Companies) and anybody else, anywhere or anytime who can get a dollar for you.
What does AARC do?
Ron:
AARC collects the blank tape and blank disc and other initiatives passed in congress over the last fifteen years. It is a vast diminishing income stream but there are royalties out there. There are DART (Digital Audio Recording Technology) royalties and AARC also has rental, people rent CDs and they pay various places for that rental value and that passes it’s way down to an artist as well. I will take any income I can to support the artist.
Lastly, and I do not mean this in a self serving way but go speak to an experienced entertainment lawyer or an experienced entertainment executive who understands how the business works and make that you first stop. Understand the income streams and how they flow. It will be the wisest investment you will ever make.
Are there books you would recommend?
Ron:
Books are great but my problem with books is it is almost impossible to keep current in this business, it is so difficult to be up to the minute and you have to be. The deal I am working on today is different from the deal I was working on two weeks ago. I will say this – just because it’s written online doesn’t mean it’s true and be wary of information from uncle Fred who had a deal with a small indie label in 1984 – his information is out of date. And, by the way, Uncle Fred may have been wrong all along.
Careers don’t always stay up. There are obstacles, there are down times and you have to prepare for them. You have to know how to prepare the band for a down. Bands want to see a high velocity upwards trajectory but that’s not going to happen all the time.
So switching gears just quickly – you’ve been a bass player for thirty-seven years. Knowing what you know now is there anything you would do differently?
Ron:
I was very lucky in that I played with recording acts and well known acts and got to play on some great records and to some great touring back in the days when we flew mostly…(Laughs) rather than seventy-eight days straight in a van (I can’t help but notice the look on his face is more empathetic than “I’m so lucky”) While that was great what was missing for me was the opportunity to produce. I think I would have enjoyed that. It did not exist then. There was no such thing as a home studio unless your home was the size of the Ponderosa. So take advantage in every way of the home recording possibilities as a musician. Music for Film, music for Television, music for plays, co-writes…you have an idea and your buddy is in the studio with you- write and record the song. You could record it and master it at the end of the day and have it up on a website the next morning. These are things that didn’t exist and they are what makes the music business exciting and wonderful now. With all of this comes the hefty responsibility of admitting the things you can’t do. Can you really produce yourself well? Most musicians will not admit they can’t.
Thanks for your time Ron…
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If you are in need of an entertainment lawyer I highly recommend you take a look at Ron Bienstock or the lawyers at his firm Bienstock & Michael.
I was lucky enough to be invited by Ariel Hyatt to watch Tom Jackson work with a local band in a studio in midtown a few months ago. I have never seen anyone do what Tom does. For lack of better words he is a live music producer. He helps bands make emotional connections with their audience and either improves a band’s live performance or gives them a whole new perspective on how to make their live show work. Tom has worked with Taylor Swift, Casting Crowns and Jars of Clay among others.
Thanks again for taking the time out of your busy schedule to speak with me. I get a great deal of requests from the people I work with to give them constructive criticism on their live performance but my suggestions are usually limited to taking the microphone off of the stand, move around more and remember to engage your audience. You on the other hand have made helping a band with their live show an art form. Please tell me in your words what it is that you do.
Tom Jackson:
I’m a live music producer. I do very similar things to what are record producer does except I deal with the show. It has to do with re-arranging the songs and creating moments. If you asked me in one sentence what the goal of my work is, it is to create moments in a musician’s shows. How you create those moments can be verbal, visual, musical… There is a bunch of different ways. I have been fortunate how to figure that out and do it.
I’ll tell you what it is not too- it’s not choreography, it’s not drama, it’s not dance. It’s not goofy stuff.
What would you say, having done this for a number of years, that the top three show killing behaviors are and what is the philosophy you use in helping people to correct these behaviors?
Tom Jackson:
Not being teachable kills the show more than anything. To me by far that is the biggest thing. The funny thing is that we have been trained in the music industry that of course when you go into the studio you get a producer, of course you get a bio or an EPK produced by professionals. You get help every step of the way but when it comes to the show you are magically supposed to know how to do it because you are a performer or an artist and that’s a big killer because it’s not the case.
That’s definitely a big one. Do you run across an archetype? Is it the musician just standing there gazing at their shoes or maybe failing to make eye contact?
Tom Jackson:
A big thing is an artist not being able to emotionally connect with their audience. Everybody is communicating from stage- always. The question is what are they communicating? What they feel like they are communicating and what they are really communicating are very often two different things. They don’t understand that non-verbal skills are important. How you stand, where you stand, your countenance, your authority and who you are… So the non-verbal skills are just randomly made up and sometimes artists copy other people who don’t know what they are doing.
Interesting, that leads into my next question. Sometimes I see people who are killing it live musically but it they are shy or introverted and it is apparent both on and offstage. It is just obvious that they are not comfortable in their own skin or in the role they are playing onstage. Unless you are Robert Smith from the Cure this kind of behavior can really work against you. Does your work involve breaking people out of their shell? I am guessing that would apply both on and offstage. Can you offer any advice to people who might be in that situation?
Tom Jackson:
Yea, in fact it is one of the four areas that I work with when working with an artist. It is the psychological, the emotional and spiritual part of who they are and who you are is more important that what you do. It takes a relationship to be able to prod people and free them up. What you want to do is to create freedom in the room, in a rehearsal room and then obviously in a venue that you are playing in so there can be an emotional love fest. If you are bound up in your emotions or self conscious all the time- then it’s more than likely not going to happen.
And this is something that you help people learn?
Tom Jackson:
Yes, in fact one of my biggest comments over the years has been that “Tom helped free me.” It’s helping people deal with fear… It’s what I call authority. Being able to have authority on stage – it’s not arrogance. In fact, authority comes from humility. I can’t teach authority but I can be a psychologist and help lead them to that place. I can show them what IS working and through that help them gain more confidence and authority a process that hopefully perpetuates itself. Hopefully they gain more and more and more and eventually this performer becomes a monster, in a good way.
It sounds like some of what you do is guiding people to their strengths rather than “step this way” or “walk that way”…
Tom Jackson:
That’s the misconception of what I do. That’s really only 10-15% of it. The re-arranging of the songs, the psychology we have been talking about and the vision for the shows are more important. One of the reasons artists do not succeed is because they have lost the vision for their shows. They are just out playing songs and without vision you end up nowhere. So it is much more than choreography.
Let’s talk about arrangement…
Tom Jackson:
That is actually the thing that I spend more time on than anything.
It makes sense that people would spend a great deal of time on arranging a song for radio but it doesn’t make sense that they wouldn’t spend time on arranging a song to go over well live.
Tom Jackson:
Yes, that’s exactly right.
I also wanted to talk to you about the difference between large and small shows. You help people prepare to play in front of big crowds, as that is the end game in your work, but can you explain what the difference would be in coaching someone to play in front of a large audience vs. a small audience? Is there a difference in stage behavior when playing in front of 40 people at a club vs. playing a big shed? Is the emotional connection you often speak about different in those two situations?
Tom Jackson:
Conceptually the answer is there is no difference. You still need to make an emotional connection, technically there are still things you can do while performing, songs do need to be re-arranged for live performance and you still need a vision. Yes I spend most of my consulting or producing is with acts that are signed but most of my teaching is for indies who are just coming up.
Honestly, I do very little different with someone like Taylor Swift. Sure I have more tools to play with, you know, most people don’t have a waterfall to fall under at the end of their set. That’s not the norm… but the concept is the same. The waterfall is the payoff. We may not have a waterfall but what payoff can we use to get the response in a club with 40 people that will get a response in that room. If you practice that… I have never seen an artist who developed these concepts not grow.
In watching you work you discussed the “cheese factor” it was great of you to point out that too much rehearsal and too much planning can backfire. When people don’t have someone like you to give them feedback and are trying to improve their live show- how do they know when they have gone too far? Is this something they have to test live?
Tom Jackson:
A lot of it has to do with testing things out live but when it comes to cheese factor there are two reasons you get cheese. One is not enough rehearsal in other words you’ve got something in your head but it isn’t in muscle memory. It looks like you are thinking about it and nobody wants to watch somebody think. Thinking about smiling or thinking about raising their arms or walking to a certain place. So in one way it’s not enough rehearsal. The other side is when there is too much rehearsal. Things can be so rehearsed that they become mechanical. It’s about finding that balance…
When watching you work recently I noticed that you went out of your way to coach the group to use the whole stage and you went as far as moving the monitors to give them more room. Explain the logic of this if you could
Tom Jackson:
I try to get rid of the barriers between me and the audience and not just the barriers. When I walk into a venue mostly everything is set up for the production people. The second thing it is set up for is the artist and the third thing that it is set up for is the audience and that’s backwards. It needs to be the audience first, the artist and then whoever is setting up the gear. I fight for every inch I can so I can have an emotional connection with the audience. I have played gigs where I have fought for an extra eight inches so I could get that much closer to the audience at the right time.
I’ll finish with this. What make a good hotel great? It’s the little things. It’s not flying beds. It’s fat towels. It’s a phone by the toilet. It’s a mint on the pillow. It’s all the little things. There is not much difference between a good hotel and a great hotel when it comes down to the basics – bed, TV, dresser, bathroom but – and this is for any artist reading this – who gets more money?
So that’s the difference between the Holiday Inn and the Ritz Carlton.
Tom Jackson:
Totally and we have this routine of taking whatever comes out way and not going the extra mile and not learning the things we are talking about to make that difference. Artists need to provide their audience with an experience to have an emotional connection, not something random.
You asked me earlier about mistakes artists make – every artist has experienced those moments on stage that are magical. For some reason the planets align, you can actually hear the monitors and everything is working and there is a love fest in the room. Here’s the problem- they don’t know why it happened. The next night you go out and do the exact same thing and it won’t work and the artist doesn’t know why. Without sounding arrogant, I know why.
Thanks again for your time Tom, this has been great.
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If you would like to find out more about Tom’s DVDs and / or get some guidance from him on your live show please visit www.onstagesuccess.com
It’s hardly a secret that covering other people’s music and placing your cover versions around the internet can be a good way of getting people to notice you and your original music. The first time I remember seeing this phenomenon work in a big way was when Marie Digby covered Rhianna’s “Umbrella” some time in 2007. Said video has been viewed more than seventeen million times to date. This cover version would lead to the song peaking at #10 on Billboard’s Bubbling Under Hot 100 singles and several synch placements and late night talk show appearances. It quite literally put her on the map.
Now clearly I’m not suggesting that you going out and doing a bang up job of covering The Devil Went Down To Georgia with your Kazoo orchestra will lead you to fame and fortune, far from it. Still it can be an inexpensive way of getting some attention for your music.
(An Electric Kazoo - who knew?)
Why Covers?
Well – I walked down 42nd street yesterday and I think it told me everything I needed to know about our culture.
(Recent photo of 42nd Street NY, NY)
Christ – no wonder the film industry felt the need to up the ante with the resurgence of 3D movies. You would have to appear to be throwing shit at people to get them to pay attention to you or your brand. EVERYTHING was an ad for something. The whole place was drenched in neon signage telling me that I smell and without the help of expensive products, that I was destined never to date a model and oh by the way – I’m old because I’m not under 22 years of age. I was also reminded that I should be ashamed that I don’t have 3% body fat – but here – have a 3,000 calorie blooming onion and a Cinnabonn – the “normal” people in our ads eat six of each daily and they are thin and smiling!
(Seems like a random rant, I know but wait for it)
(Still Shot from the 1988 Movie "They Live")
If this is culture at large – why wouldn’t music and music marketing follow suit and be subject to the same perils and poisons? My MySpace account is full of pretty people’s avatars that want to put some kind of html on my comments page to the tune of 50-60 / week and I’m not even the biggest MySpace user. I get invited to roughly 30 events per week by my 900 Facebook friends of whom I really know maybe 300-400 and of those only about 50-60 very well. Don’t even get me started on my email inbox. I ask myself daily – “Wait- how do I know this person and what are they trying to sell me?”
So, Why Covers?
My own experience with covers – particularly video covers- leads me to believe that people gravitate to them because there is something familiar to hold on to. How bad could it be if I already know something about what I am going to experience? Won’t this song have a better chance of being better than the myriad of potential disappointments that over-saturation often leads to? I am going to guess this is why we have 31 flavors of every successful product these days – different enough to get you to buy more, similar enough to not trigger your justified sense of consumer neophobia.
They used to say it took seven or eight impressions to make a sale. I have no idea what that number is today when we process so much more information and are treated to advertising signage in front of the Urinals in the mens room (I have no idea if women have similar signage in the ladies room – I think this should comfort you).
So- before I use this rant- er blog post as an excuse to share with you some of the more creative and well executed video covers that converted me from jaded bastard to fan here is a bit of advice in selecting your cover from a practical point of view. By all means if you have creative reasons to pick a certain song ignore this advice but at least hear me out.
In a world after the success of Maria Digby – the video cover idea has become all too common and it has become more difficult to get attention through YouTube searches as more cover tunes and more videos in general continue to pour in to that site. How do you combat this? As usual with me I get on a soapbox about getting found in search so this is sort of SEO related.
The general rule of thumb is to look for a cover that is under-served meaning a song that comes up with relatively few search results but has a high demand. How do you determine this? Well – much like doing keyword research for an Adwords campaign on Google- you can do the same with YouTube. YouTube has a promoted videos tool that allows you to see an estimate of what people are searching for on a monthly basis. Combining this with the pure volume of search results that come up for a song in a regular query and the number of overall views on the top 3-5 results of that query and you should be able to get a sense if there is an under-served demand for a particular song to cover. One thing I can suggest is – STOP COVERING LEONARD COHEN’S HALLELUJAH. Even Leonard Cohen wants you to stop.
Anyway – if you select the right song, correctly tag it and maybe even add a drop of promoted ads (yep – while I can’t confirm it I believe Google and YouTube reward you in your “organic” search if you spend a bit of cash with them) you could be come up on the first page or even top 3 search results for that song name and be found by anyone looking for that song on YouTube. If the original is a song that makes sense for your audience or even if you just do a compelling enough version you may wind up with fans who may have otherwise been too jaded to risk their most precious commodity on you and your music – their attention.
*** Yes – you do have to procure a synch license from the publisher of the original song to do this legally. I am not a lawyer and can’t give legal advice but I can tell you I have not heard of anyone getting worse than a take down notice for such a use.***
(New fans? OK - bad caption but good photo)
Here are some covers that made me fans of the original music made by each of these artists:
Jay Wasco – “Heart of Gold”
The Civil Wars – “Dance me to the end of Love”
Gavin Castleton “Sledgehammer”
Andy Gesner and Rob Fitzgerald are the two principals in the music video promotion company Hip Video Promo. Andy was a musician who had been in and out of rock bands, created the Artists Amplification community and after doing similar video promotion work with other companies founded Hip Video Promo in 2001. Rob came on board in 2006. Hip video promo gets music videos played on music television shows across the country. Hip works both for major label artists and independents.
So give me a basic overview of your company and what you guys do.
RF:
Well, I deal a lot with the clients themselves in terms of getting all the assets together that we need to get out the door, like the masters and making sure everything is closed captioned, and that we have the proper photographs and bio information, one sheets prepared etc. That in and of itself can be a hassle to people not familiar with the video.
Mass mailing in multiple video formats has to be a nightmare for someone that doesn’t know the difference.
RF:
Exactly. And, well, it’s also really that technology has really changed the game a lot too. One of the things we have to keep up with is technology, because now we’re working a lot more with digital assets; things aren’t just coming in on beta tapes. There’s a lot of back and forth about how are we going to get the master delivered, how are we going to do this, get it dubbed properly, etc., etc. On that end, that’s a lot of what I do. And then we have another girl whose job is to make sure that the programmers are telling us what they’re doing with our videos. As a client, you certainly want to make sure that we’re sending the video out, but we need to be able to tell the clients who’s playing it. And if they’re not playing it, we need to know either why not or when they’re playing it. The thing with radio is, you have that centralized, universal chart that everyone reports to, whether it be CMJ, etc. You don’t really have that with video anymore. So it’s really up to the promoters to keep up with the individual programmers.
Doesn’t Neilsen or someone one track this anymore? You have to figure out how many spins there are via word of mouth?
RF:
No. There’s no tracking service. There used to be the CVC Report, which did that. But that went under probably four or five years ago. Since then it’s really been up to the individual promoter to keep in touch with the programmers. With that being said, a lot of programmers we work with are very good at sending out their weekly tracking or their monthly or bi-monthly tracking. But there is definitely a certain element of being the heavy hand had that says, “We’re not going to be spending our clients’ money to make these dubs and send them to you if you’re not telling us what you’re using. We need to, aside from supply content to them, give information back to our clients. If we can’t do that, we can’t send you the video.” Another member of our team is in charge of all the programmer intake and keeping track of address changes, what shows come on the air, what shows go off the air and also getting all the tracking into reports. And then we have a few other people on staff who prepare reports and ascertain all the playlists and get everything ready to go back to the client.
I noticed you mention you’re including a bio in the package. Is this similar to radio promotion in that all these programmers are remarkably overwhelmed, and you really need to have some kind of story that’s interesting, in other words the biographical information for your artists and the product itself are going to do a lot of the sales work for you?
RF:
I think with any kind of promotion, one of the first questions a promoter is going to ask is, “What’s the story? What’s going on with this band?” So, yes, that’s a big part of it. We want to give them every reason, aside from, “Here’s a great video,” “Here’s what else is going on with this band. They’re doing really well with radio, they’re getting great press, they’re touring with so and so.” We also want to get them all that information. As far as them being overwhelmed, for some of them it is. What it is a lot – we were talking about technology before – technology has made it a much more affordable venture to make a music video. With digital and everything, you don’t need a film camera and you don’t need all this stuff to make a video. You can really edit it and shoot it. It doesn’t mean it’s going to be any good necessarily, but technology has made many more people of the opinion that they are music video directors.
I have seen some videos that cost next to nothing that were better than some million dollar videos…
RF:
The thing we love, and one of the things we tell a lot of clients is, you don’t have to spend a lot of money to make a music video, but you have to have a good idea. That’s what kind of separates the men from the boys in music video world. No, you don’t have to spend a lot of money; but a lot of people don’t spend a lot of money and they’re trying to make their video look like they spent a lot of money. A good idea, a good concept, a good execution will embrace the fact that there wasn’t a lot of money spent on it. They’re not trying to make it look like they spent a lot of money on it; they’re trying to make it look like they have a cool concept. So, absolutely, you don’t have to spend a lot of money, but because you don’t, a lot of people that don’t have a good vision or the talent to make a good-looking video are still making videos. With the rise of something like YouTube, video has become a much more important component, whereas maybe six or seven years ago, people were saying, “Oh, MTV’s not playing as many videos. The video format is a dying breed.” Then all of a sudden you get your whole viral element, and video shoots back to the top of being a big priority for bands.
Before we jump into digital, I notice that you guys are sending out a lot of physical different formats, but you’re actually sending something you can hold – a DVD or the various formats – to programmers across the board for terrestrial video outlets. Let’s say and artist made a video and they are looking to use this piece of their marketing toolkit to get them somewhere. Are there a lot of options for people like that to get test spins on different regional or niche video outlets offline?
AG:
I’ll take this one. I would have to say that going back to your question about bios and about presentation, we go to great lengths to present each artist in a way that is unlike a lot of other promotions companies where they might just take the band’s bio and maybe rehash it a little. For us it’s almost as if we’re the band’s team of lawyers and we’re going into the courtroom of indie rock music video opinion. We really have to give these people an intriguing, compelling reason to give these artists – of which many are very independent – programming consideration. What we’ve come to find is that whether it’s a bad like Spoon or Moby or the Gaslight Anthem, that you know are going to grab people’s attention because they are already a known quantity, we have hundreds of success stories of bands that were just flying under the radar but because the video was so incredibly outstanding, it more or less became the anchor of their marketing campaign moving forward.
These are the kinds of success stories that lead to tons of repeat business for us, because radio has really locked the indies out. Press is so expensive that even if you plunk down $5,000 or $8,000, who’s to say that anyone is going to actually write about you and write favorably? A compelling video and a video that really has an impact on viewers is going to definitely help an artist, especially independently, to really get to that next level so when they go out for the next record or the third record, they’re going to be in a situation where they’re a known quantity. There are so many stories like that where people are coming back because they got so much great feedback on the video that they realized, “Hey, people want to see it, they want to hear it.” The attention span of the normal American these days has become so small that they really want a full story, whether it be visual or audio or print so that they can make an informed decision.
RF:
One thing I’d add is that a lot of the programmers we service, on the terrestrial level, or even really on any level, have that independent mentality where they’re going to get the name bands, and obviously those are going to get on there because they’re established and well known but a lot of these guys are just looking for something they like.
I guess my question is are there are still traditional terrestrial video outlets where a independent artist can get spun?
RF:
Yeah. Absolutely.
Again, most people say, “Well, I want this on MTV,” but they don’t know. Fuse you get a little bit of a better shot. If you’re a gay artist, there’s Logo. If you’re a hard rock artist, I’m sure there are outlets like that. There’s Manhattan Neighborhood Network if you want to go really, really small. It’s just good to know that those are out there. Here’s a good question. Where should every artist, whether they can afford your services or not, be online? Is it going to YouTube or TubeMogul to kick it out to the major players? What would you say to someone that has no budget or blew their entire budget on making the video and now wants to get that video exposed?
RF:
The same thing I would say to a band that wants to do anything and doesn’t have the budget – do as much as you possibly can yourself. I’m sure you see it with A&R and stuff. The bands that get the furthest and accomplish the most are the ones that will never let anyone work harder for them than they will.
I guess I meant specifically. Are there outlets where everyone should be? Who are the usual suspects?
RF:
Stuff like YouTube and a lot of those sites where you can upload it yourself and get it on there, there are tones of sties of that nature, whether it be YouTube, Yahoo, AOL etc. On our end, we don’t dive head-first into all the digital realms because that gets into a whole new world with viral marketing teams, and a lot of times when we get into a project with teams, we kind of overlap. They have someone that is more specific to the blogs and everything. We do work with places like AOL, Yahoo.
Those services do have a programming staff is my understanding.
RF:
Right. And we work with sites like that where we feel that we can get them the video, and then we can also do more above and beyond just getting it on their site.
And that’s a good question. Obviously relationships are always necessary, but are relationships the difference between getting spins on serious sites like that vs. maybe getting tested once?
RF:
I think first and foremost your product is the biggest thing. That’s the difference, which we try to stress a lot to bands: “Make sure you have something that you’re totally confident in.”
I didn’t mean to make that sound so black and white. I guess, putting aside talent, and somebody who wrote a single as obvious as say Gnarls Barkley’s “Crazy,” are relationships essential for getting regular rotation for something on those outlets in most cases?
RF:
I think in a lot of situations, it’s a huge benefit, because the guy who is giving your video to them can pick up the phone and get that guy on the phone and have a conversation about that, then your video has just gone to the top of that pile. He now has your video specifically written down on his to-do list for the day instead of it just blindly coming in and sitting in a pile of the other 50-some videos they got in that week.
AG:
One of the toughest parts of my job is, over nine years we’ve had to tell many, many potential clients, “My staff and I have watched your video. The song is good, the video is good, but we don’t feel comfortable moving forward with you.” Basically, I’m trying to say in the best possible way that, “You know what potential client? Don’t lead off with this video.” A lot of times they will say, “So you don’t think the video is that good?” I never tell them that the video isn’t that good. I say, “Look, in this world, you never get a second chance to make a first impression. And this video might not be the first impression. You might want to go back to the drawing board.” And sure enough in numerous instances we’ve had bands come back nine months or 14 months later and are really appreciative of us and say, “You saved us from ourselves. You didn’t just take our money.” I don’t want to take bands’ money if we don’t feel confident that the video is going to get them the exposure or the attention they deserve. With that being said, we’re selective on the videos that we promote to our programmers, but the programmer is always the first to say, “We appreciate that you guys always send us the best of the best.”
It was the same for people who would pitch A&R executives – your reputation was everything. When somebody became known as a peddler of shit in the A&R community they couldn’t get a meeting or anybody on the phone.
AG:
You use that expression I use all the time here in the office. Nine years into this, and I still haven’t become a shit merchant. And there are a ton of them out there. Each year I travel the country and visit my programmers and I take them out to their favorite restaurant or we go out to their favorite night club, and I’ve done this tour every year. A month from now I’m going to start my eighth tour of the country visiting my programmers, and yes – the programmers love to be shown love. They’re the first ones to tell me, “Andy, when that Hip video package comes to us it always goes to the top of the pile because we know we’re going to get a ‘Place to Bury Strangers,’ we know we’re going to get ‘Smile, Smile,’ or we know we’re going to get the new Spoon video from you. Don’t you guys have the new Frightened Rabbit Coming up? I can’t wait to get that!” Of course, for a lot of these bands like Frightened Rabbit, when we first promoted them two years ago, nobody knew who the hell they were. The same thing happened with Grizzly Bear. The first time out with Grizzly Bear, it was “Grizzly who?” But when you come back a second time around, boy does it make your job a lot easier.
Good to know.
RF:
Video is kind of like the weird, mysterious cousin in the promotion family. People don’t know how you do video. We definitely know there’s an element of uncertainty terms of what a video consists of.
There’s a lot of this I certainly didn’t know.
AG:
Briefly, I wanted to mention that, whether it’s Jerry at JBTV in Chicago or Shirley at NY Noise in Manhattan or John Faulkner at Notes from the Underground in L.A., or Alternative Currents in Omaha, or Music Mix USA in Florida, these video shows have been around a long time and they really do have a rabid, loyal viewership. TV is a time-tested medium. People still want to sit in front of their TV and be fed it. Not everybody wants to go to the computer and search for it. With that being said, for anyone that feels that terrestrial TV is going by the wayside, I beg to differ.
Let me ask you this – of all the videos you get, is there a common mistake, either technically or quality wise or anything that you would have people avoid? You just mentioned your screening process is a bit intense. What are some mistakes you see from independent bands making videos? What are some things people should avoid when making a video.
RF:
Well, say they were going to send it to the local, regional channel the thing that a lot of people do – you know when you watch a video and you have your band name, the song title, the director and the label on the bottom left-hand corner? That’s called a Kyron. That’s something that the programmer puts on and the channel puts on and the show puts on because a lot of times they have a custom-made thing. What we see a lot now is that the director will put it on themselves. So we get a video, and we can’t send a video as far up as an MTV or as low down as a local, regional show, because they want to put their own graphic on there. So if you send it out with s self made kyron (*** Note -no clue how to spell this but I’m sticking with my first attempt***) on there, nobody’s going to be able to touch it. That’s kind of a common thing. With urban videos, it’s a little more black and white, because more of the current trend in the hip hop world is to have the big, splashy graphic on top that says the band name and the song title. That’s okay, because that’s more a part of the video. That’s something that’s part of the video itself. But the white block letters in the bottom left-hand corner.
The floating text in the first few seconds, yes.
RF:
A lot of times the programmer will get a video and they’ll like it, and they’ll say, “That’s great, but you need to send it to me without the kyron.” One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of programmers, if they do a regular show – a show that airs a couple times a week, maybe it’s an hour long – they want to be able to program a bunch of videos. Not that we ever want to compromise anybody’s musical or artistic integrity, but the longer the video is, the less of a chance you’re going to have at getting it programmed. Because if you send a video for a song that’s five-and-a-half minutes long, you might have a programmer say, “Hey, I could get two videos in this span of time instead of this one video eating up five-and-a-half minutes of the programming.” Personally speaking, it seems too bad to me that there’s the mentality that every song or every single needs to be three-and-a-half minutes long because some of my favorite songs are four-and-one-half-minutes or five-minutes long, but again, I’m not making up the rules, I’m just going with the reality of what people are looking for and what gives the best chance of air play. And lastly, I’d say if you’re looking for television broadcast type airplay, don’t push your luck with potentially offensive material. Even though the Internet has kind of desensitized people to what is acceptable and what is offensive and what is not, censors think differently. People like to push the envelope, and if you’re going viral with it, that’s great; but if you’re going to have bare breasts or gratuitous butt shots, a lot of people are not going to play it for that reason. And it’s not like I’m telling people what to do with their videos, but that is the feedback that comes back from censors.
Suggestions for what not to do when trying to get your video aired are completely within the realm of the question. Andy, did you have something to add earlier?
AG:
We service over a dozen retail pools, better described as content providers. Whether it’s Club Com who gets the videos into fitness centers and gyms so that when you’re working out you can watch the cool new Spoon video, or if it’s Promo Only in Florida who provides their video reels to night clubs, night life locations, cruise ships, bowling alleys, or it’s DMX in Seattle, who hits all the major retailers in the malls you go to, or In-Store Sports Network who provide video content for Foot Locker and Foot Action … they have to be cognizant of content, because they don’t want complaints coming back from customers saying, “Hey, I was in with my eleven-year old daughter, and that video had some salacious content.” Aside from the national outlets that will flag a video due to content, you’re also hurting yourself out there in content provider land, because you see videos everywhere you go. I go to my local oil change place, and they have videos playing in there. It’s all very much something bands should consider. If you want to get cute, like Rob says, or they want to get salacious, you’re going to be hurting your chances for exposure.
Just one last question. Are there any parting words of advice for artists out there and their videos?
RF:
You never get a second chance to make a first impression, so if you’re going to send your video, make sure it’s something you’ve taken the time to be really proud of. That’s really the gist of it. You can understand that promotion and your team and your contacts can only go so far if you don’t have a good product to work with. Take the time to make it right.
Check out http://hipvideopromo.com for more info
A mentor once told me that being an entrepreneur is about separating the wheat from the chaff. This should come as no surprise to you as a musician. If you are reading this the odds are that you are a musician or work with musicians / are related to one. The point is- if you run in these circles you know how much BS there is out there. In my experience with both musicians and executives – hollow promises and lack of follow through are too common. How does one find the services and strategic partners that are going to do what they say they will?
In this day and age – musicians have to be entrepreneurs. Most people have to take a stab at doing everything themselves. They have to do everything from being their own label, manager, booking agent and their very own online marketing guru. This work comes after all of the effort that goes into making great products and self- branding. It is understandably too much for people. This is why they turn to outside help – and help is available out there. As of the typing of this article, Google has 129 million results for “How to make it in the music industry.” The digital age has made the outsourcing of solutions to what were major obstacles to musicians in the past rather easy to overcome. For a nominal fee you can get digital distribution. You can take a stab at your own website for free on sites like Blogger, Tumblr and WordPress or even upgrade to your own URL without knowing how to program for less than $75 / year. There are music business coaches, online marketing services, radio independents and various other kinds of helpful services out there waving around their contact information just waiting on your call. Today, musicians have the power and the reach to hire contractors.
Back to the problem though – who’s real?
What is this provider promising? Does it sound to good to be true? If so – it probably is. There are lots of people out there who promise the moon for a low fee or a signature on a contract and they are really just preying on people’s hopes and dreams. Below are some tips that can help you sort through both potential investments in your career and potential strategic partners
1. First hand testimony
The first and best choice when thinking about making a purchase of services (or even just the investment of time into a new technology or social network) is the testimony of someone you know and trust. If it is a large investment or decision I would look around for multiple opinions if possible.
2. Internet searches
Look at this person online. Try searching for their name in quotes and their company name or their company name and the word “reviews”. If you are really suspicious try their name and the word “lawsuit” If they have online profiles on social networks like LinkedIn see if what they say is reflected on their resume there and who they are connected to. This is entertainment – there should be some references even if they are ones generated by the person in question that at least tells you they are wiling to go on public record with what they have told you.
3. References
Still have questions? Try asking the provider or partner for some references from their other clients. People unwilling to provide references are suspect to me. You can also take it upon yourself to cold email someone who has used the service and see if they get back to you with their experiences
4. Presentation
Particularly when you are dealing with services that live online you should see if this person or company has a decent website. It need not be fancy, it doesn’t have to be terribly flashy but it should be a decent representation of what they do and who they are. No matter what kind of service or partner you are thinking of working with you want to be aligned with a person or an organization that communicates well. If someone is using MySpace as a corporate website – that feels a great deal more insubstantial to me. I would want to be with a person or a company that has made a commitment to their own branding before allowing them to be a part of mine.
5. Metrics
This one is my favorite. Are you informed when you are surfing the web? Most people are not. If you have not done so install the Google page rank tool bar and the alexa page rank tool bar into your browsers. These are both tools that give you a very rough idea of how important a site is in terms of traffic and how well they have been prepared for search engine optimization. Google works on a scale of 0-10 and Alexa from 1 to twenty something million. Neither one is a perfect barometer for web traffic but if you are approaching a web marketing company and they tell you about how great they are at online marketing and both toolbars come back “n/a” or “0″…. Move on. These numbers are also important when determining whether or not it is worthwhile to invest time writing content for a site, participating in a new social network etc. Having numbers on your side will definitely help you feel how real someone is – at least in terms of what they know / how much time they have invested into online marketing for their own brand.
Be careful out there. I don’t want to make anyone paranoid. There are a number of great people and services in music but sadly there are a few bad apples that make it worth mentioning.
I have a bunch of exciting interviews lined up and several just waiting for approval – thanks as always for reading.
-R-
Recently I was approached by an artist through my website that wanted me to listen to his music. His pitch was that he had thousands of fans but just needed help “getting to the next level” with his music. I was kind of perplexed by email because quite frankly if someone has thousands of real fans – they don’t need a music business consultant and they won’t have any problems getting a qualified manager and agent on board if they want them. I did what most people would do – I turned to the web for answers.
A search for his band name yielded only a MySpace page and one reference on a blog that spoke about a show they were on with a dozen other groups. I did get back to this guy but then again I am in the business of selling a service to musicians – not in the business of finding artists to partner with (Like a manager, agent, publisher etc). Had I been a manager I think the email would probably not have been returned.
His email reminded me of two things that are amazingly important for all artists to keep in mind these days about their image and their business.
I don’t think I have to elaborate on thought number one – we allegedly all learn not to lie in Kindergarten in spite of forgetting it now and then. The second thought though, your web presence, is something you absolutely have to make a concerted effort at building and maintaining.
I often interview my music industry contacts to get their opinion on getting ahead in the music business pertaining to their niche in the industry. Invariably these people all say the same thing. “What gets my attention is when an artist demonstrates to me that they have built a following.” The first place people look for signs of life in an artist’s career is online. How many MySpace friends or followers on Twitter does the artist have? Do they blog or vlog and do people comment and interact with them on these pages? Has anyone written anything about the group or posted photos or video of them performing live? Does their website or profile pages have signs of life and provide concrete examples that this artist has a community that supports what they do? That last point is key – pure volume of friends on the social networks can be manipulated. Making sure your fans have a place to interact and behave like a supportive community on the other hand can make all the difference in presenting well online.
Back to basics though, It all starts with what you tell the web to tell people about you. Every artist should have his or her own website. MySpace and Facebook are great tools but they are just tools. Having your own website (and no – not a free one) has tons of advantages.
Your website is the place to host the official press shots, the official bio and the most current news about what is going on with your music. Anyone who (hopefully) would write about you will be using your official page for reference materials so it is your job to provide them to people. It is also your way of guiding people to visit you on the social networks and connecting with you there. This won’t detract from your website but it will give people an excuse to have a connection with you in places that they are already frequenting. Keep in mind that a website need not cost more than a few hundred dollars to do its job. All it really needs to do is look professional and convey your information and store your media – that’s it.
Speaking of social networks… Yes- they are a required evil. That said – pick and choose your battles. You do not have to be on every last one. My personal favorites for music purposes are:
MySpace (because it is an industry standard and because it allows you to search users by what other artists they are fans of enabling you to effectively market to fans of similar music)
Facebook (because everyone I have met from the age of six on seems to be on there)
Twitter (because it is GREAT at driving traffic to things you want people to see)
LastFM (because it allows you to see what else people who visit your page were listening to)
You need not update these all the time – in fact you can have Facebook and Twitter connected as well as Myspace and Twitter connected. You can also have every social network and your blog connected if you choose to do so through a free service like Ping.FM.
Having a website and a handful of social profiles is great but let’s also keep in mind that prospective partners want to see that there is a conversation taking place online – a dialogue between you and people who like your music. The artists that seem to be the most versatile and the most enduring in the last few years are ones who have harnessed the power the web brings to make sure that there is two way communication. Don’t get my wrong – start by just making sure you show up in search results! That’s is absolutely essential and should be everyone’s step one but what will ultimately sell you to the music business is not that you have set up this virtual podium to address the world but what music business executives really want to see if a tangible demonstration that someone is listening. If you are sending messages out into cyber space and you get 50-100 comments per post… that’s a great performance indicator. These are just examples – by all means be creative in how you interact. I have seen everything from Twitter to Blogging, to podcasts to video notes from the tour bus really engage and build fanbases for artists.
I will be going back to interviews shortly. Thanks for reading.
Rick
