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It occurred to me recently as I got a call from a musician with a great deal of heart and hope but very little in the way of compelling reasons to get people to listen that it was time to discuss the notion of conversation currency.   Below is my experience with working with figuring out what to say and do to build a business and meet the people I wanted to meet.  For better or worse I built my first business the same way I built the bands I played in or worked with throughout my career.

I started my career with a tremendous advantage over most people since my first real job was as an intern and then assistant for Lava / Atlantic Records working under people who were very established and competent.  The phone rang and rang and rang.  The people they really wanted to talk to were busy so that left me on the line trying to figure out if I could help them with whatever information they needed and just generally being polite or mimicking things I heard my superiors say and trying to sound less young, inexperienced or blatantly unqualified.

It was not hard to be well connected in musician circles as someone who was a gatekeeper (even as minor of a gatekeeper as I was) for multi-platinum artists and what were at the time million dollar record deals.  It was however hard to be taken seriously within the music business community.  What I learned was that I had to find something of concrete and renewable value to the people I wanted to get close to.  I didn’t know what else to call it – I’ve referred to it (mostly in my own mind) as conversation currency or if that doesn’t ring any bells for you – a reason that people will take your phone call and take your seriously.  At the time in my early 20s I was out six nights a week and I knew more bands and artists than a majority of people on the planet.  Trading on that information and being helpful was what helped me gain favor within that community.

Let’s fast forward several years, shall we?  I’m fairly fresh out of the label system and I’ve had it with mid management shenanigans.  I declare there is no going back to corporate America.  I spend far too much money (thank you local NYC government officials) on an LLC and start calling myself a consultant.  At this point in time I’m not even 100% sure what that means except that I really don’t want a “real” job…

On this particular day I am thinking of I am just staring at my phone and it’s not ringing.  It occurs to me quite late in life that there is absolutely no reason for my phone to ring unless I hustle and start making things happen.  I really had it somewhere in my mind that my phone would just start ringing the way it did at an almost fifty-year old company like Atlantic Records just because I had incorporated.   I didn’t have a reason to call anyone who wasn’t already a contact or a friend.  I had no excuse to meet new people because I didn’t have anything to say except that I was a consultant and worse – I was a consultant without any clients.

An ex A&R guy without a new label or a trust fund is like a food critic without a newspaper column or a blog – just a fucking pig with adjectives.  Jesus Christ – what the hell was I going to consult on if I didn’t even have any desire to work with artists?  (MusicianCoaching.com came several years later after a change of heart.  The first company I founded only handles corporate clients).

I spent the first several weeks just trying to figure out what I had that I could use and what I liked to do.  Luckily for me both things worked hand in hand.  I had a big Rolodex and I liked introducing people to other people in the hopes that these new relationships would be mutually beneficial.

I spent the next few months calling up everyone I knew – asking them what they were working on and trying to determine what kind of person or opportunity they needed.  Wherever I could I went out of my way to make an introduction.  It turns out that this is the underpinning of business development- a skill that I had previously associated with being about as useful as whistling or being ambidextrous.  It turned out that knowing where to get information is almost as good as knowing it yourself.

Pretty soon I got my first clients.  Prior to being in business for myself I thought Pro Bono was a way for Sonny and Cher fans to identify themselves.  It turns out to be a legal form of slave labor (yea, yea – it’s from Latin and means “the public good” that just wasn’t my experience with it). None the less when some friends offered me a chance to see if I couldn’t hustle up some business for various friends and contacts of theirs I jumped at the chance even when I didn’t fully believe in the project.  Why?  Because it gave me an excuse to talk to people.  Being on the phone and being helpful served its purpose.  I was top of mind for an opportunity – I had provided value to my friends and contacts in the past by introducing them to people and eventually one of my contacts would give me a client that would lend context to my business and give me an excuse to talk to people.

Several Pro Bono clients later I scored my first monthly retainer introducing a music start up to the industry people who could help them with their talent needs.  After that I closed a tech client who needed help licensing millions of hours worth of music.  Several corporate clients of all different shapes and sizes would soon follow suit.

I don’t want to appear like I am preaching to your from the top of a lofty pile of cash, or that I even have delusions of such grandeur, but I am making a living.   Unlike past corporate jobs I have never been more grateful for every penny on my own.  It is important to note that every experience and every client added to the story I could tell the next client.  This is not to say that my business doesn’t hit its lulls but it has gotten easier with time.

So my musician friend – how does this apply to you?

Well – are you a musician without a band?  Are you a band without a gig?  What do you have in trade to get someone to take your seriously?  Are you good at production?  Are you great at playing leads or arranging in exchange for some other services?  Can you make great beats?  Or think even further outside the box – do you know how to fix a tour bus?  Do you know every beautiful guy or gal in your hometown and can you bring them out to live performances?  Maybe you just know people…lots and lots of people and like talking to them about what they do…

Have you asked people in a position to help you who or what they need today and can you figure out where to get it?  Figure out what is interesting about your current story so that you can tell the next gatekeeper you encounter why he needs to know you.  Figure out what you have of value and what you like to do and start picking up the phone.  Remember – just being a dude in a band or a guy with beats alone isn’t enough.

Happy hunting,

-Rick-

What would you do you if your song ever got placed in a commercial or film as a developing artist?

This is not at all the typical post but I was recently asked to generate a proposal by a large ad agency to do marketing and record label functions around a song the agency had placed in one of their client’s commercials.  I was pretty psyched because I liked the artist and the whole problem of what to do to get found if you are ever presented with such an opportunity is, while very work intensive, rather straight forward and fun.  It’s all about leaving  Bread Crumbs back to a point of purchase and making sure people who don’t know you or your music by name can find you.

I have no idea what happened with the project since I never heard back but since the work for this was already done I figured someone should get the benefit.  Chances are I gave away too much of a clear path which could be followed by someone internally.  The names of the agency, brand and artist have been changed but a slightly modified version of the rough proposal is available here.  May it serve you or someone you know better than it did for the artist it was written for who may or may not have ever read it.

This article deals a great deal Search Engine Optimization and linking strategies.  It is very important for reasons like this that your website be well designed with Search Engine Optimization in mind even if you already occupy the top few slots for your groups name in search results.  At the following link you can learn more about basic Music and SEO.

I will be back soon with more on Finding a music manager.

Best,

-Rick-

Joe Guyette is one of the owners of the CD / DVD Manufacturing company Breakthrough Audio.  Joe started his music business career managing bands while in college and went on to co-manage bands with The Bodeans’ manager Mark McCraw and Uppercut Management who handed Kid Rock at the time.  Not long after leaving management he and his partner Craig Winkler founded Breakthrough Audio.

Music Consultant:

Tell me a bit about Breakthrough Audio and what you guys do.

JG:

Breakthrough Audio is a CD and DVD manufacturing company. We built up a grassroots name through finding key bands that were using us for their manufacturing and started doing networking with the managers and connections from there and built up a mom and pop kind of shop in Chicago. We started as a cassette duplication company where we had 100 cassette decks all tied in and soldered together and started out doing cassettes, and when CDs came about we started doing CDs and then DVDs. We started doing a lot of bands’ manufacturing throughout Chicago and throughout the U.S. We do a lot of indie labels as well.

Music Consultant:

What are some common mistakes you see people make with their manufacturing? Do people order too much or too little product? What is your advice for someone who is pressing their first 500 or 1,000 CDs or DVDs?

JG:

The best advice I can give is to definitely plan ahead. The biggest mistake is not so much in the manufacturing because there are always proofing processes that take care of that. I would have to say out of all my orders, 90% of the orders I get from my bands are bands that already have a date for a CD release party, which is usually only a week to three weeks out. They don’t understand that the manufacturing takes three weeks. Every Friday we have bands in our office picking up CDs between sound checks and their CD release party show. When I ask them how much promotion they did for their show, they often say, “None, because we didn’t have any CDs.” And that’s when I say, “There probably won’t be too many people at your CD release party because you didn’t do any pre-releases or proper planning.” Bands tend to think the day they get their CDs should be the day they have their CD release show because they can’t wait. There usually very little planning. There are no reviews in the local newspapers, no Internet reviews. That’s definitely the most common error that I see. It’s really stressful, because we get a lot of bands that do place orders and come in with tight timelines and we have to make those deadlines.  In my experience, bands don’t budget well either. They spend all their money on recording. They’ll spend sometimes as much as $20,000 on recording and then will come to me and want the best-looking package on no money. Budgeting and timing always seem to be the biggest issues.

Music Consultant:

That sounds like a lot of bands I know. Do you have any other ancillary service other than the manufacturing end? Is there a marketing arm or anything like that?

JG:

We do not have a marketing arm, but we do send off music. We do listen to every CD that comes in, and when it’s good, we send it off to the proper channels to see if we can help out the bands in any way, whether it be a record deal or licensing for movies or TV shows. It’s all based on if we think there’s a good market for it.  It’s not a promised service – It’s something we do when we feel that something has potential. If we sent everything out there that got submitted to us, there would be no credibility, because we would just be vomiting out bands left and right, going for quantity rather than quality.

Music Consultant:

How has your business changed with the dawn of the Digital Age? Are you experiencing different types of orders, less orders, more of a different type? What does the changing landscape look like for a manufacturer?

JG:

Breakthrough is experiencing more orders for bigger quantities. I think it’s because what you’re seeing and hearing and the numbers being reported to the people on CD sales are based on major labels numbers and not actual manufacturing numbers. I’ve done more runs of between 2,000 and 10,000 in the last five years for touring bands than we ever did for bands that would just do 1,000 units. I think part of that is due to the label system not signing as much as they used to leaving it to artists to do themselves.  There were a couple years – and I haven’t had this happen in a while – but there would be bands that would come into our office all the time and disappear for a few years. They’d used us exclusively for years, and then we’d never hear anything from them. And I’d say, “Where have you guys been?” And they’d say, “We did a record, and did a digital only release.” And I’d ask them how that went, and not one response was, “It went well.” Every response was, “It was terrible.” And I’d ask them why, and they’d say, “Nobody cared about a digital release. We couldn’t get any press or any promotion, and no club wanted to book us for a CD release party when we weren’t going to be selling any CDs.” So, they would come back to us and were always adamant about getting CDs done. And I’d ask them how those digital release tours went, and they’d say they didn’t make any money and actually lost money because they weren’t selling product. I think in the music business today you still need to have the physical copy. You need to sell to people in the bar at shows. If you hand out download cards, generally the people don’t go and use them. I’ve actually received download cards from friends of mine that have bands, and I’ve not once downloaded the music.

Music Consultant:

I haven’t either, actually.

JG:

It isn’t because I have a CD company. It’s just because it gets lost in my wallet, I drop it, it’s in my car, or who knows what happens to it. When I sit down at my computer I’m so busy trying to do work that I just don’t get to it. But if they had given me a CD, I guarantee on my way home I would’ve listened to the CD. Back in the day when I used to leave the Metro in Chicago all the time, there used to be 20 bands handing out free CDs wherever we went. And I remember I would go and listen to those CDs on the way home every time, and now you barely see any of that happening anymore. Everybody thinks because it’s a download, digital age, there’s no point in having a CD. It’s not even a bias, it’s just my experience.

Music Consultant:

What advice could you give to aspiring musicians that are looking to get their product manufactured? How would you determine which manufacturer you would hire?

JG:

A lot of bands go strictly on price. One of the advantages that we have at Breakthrough is that it’s a small company and clients get to deal with the person that is actually handling the manufacturing, rather than a kid handling the database with comments. To me, that’s a big deal – when you know you’re going to get the person with accountability on the phone. That’s something to really consider, and not just being treated like just another number coming through the door. When I look for a company to do business with, I always look for that as well. I don’t want to be treated like a fast food product.

Music Consultant:

Do you have any idea as to whether or not deluxe printing – cardboard cases with inserts – sell better for your clients?

JG:

We used to run 80% jewel case products, and that’s really opposite now. Now it’s about 20% jewel cases and everything else is digi-packs and 5-inch cardboard sleeves. Everybody thinks they are more economical and earth friendly because it’s cardboard over plastic, which on some level is true, but really in all honesty, once you manufacture something in cardboard it really no longer has any use. The plastic jewel cases became so universal because they could melt them back down and reuse them again or take an old product out and reuse the jewel case. So I don’t think the 5-inch cardboard or digi-pack is much more earth friendly. If you have 800 CDs leftover from your order, and they are in digi-packs, there’s no other use for those. If you have jewel cases, you can probably sell them to a friend or to a vendor like myself – and I’ve bought them off bands before, and I’ve reused them twice.

Something else to consider is that when you’re purchasing a cardboard digi-pack a lot of companies are advertising that it’s recycled cardboard, but if you do your research click through to about the tenth web page on their site, you read that only 10% is recycled and the rest is new.

Back to the original question though, we are seeing a huge influx of digi-packs and 5-inch cardboard sleeves. Huge.

Music Consultant:

Any other parting words of advice to bands about hiring the right partner or music business advice in general?

JG:

When it comes to manufacturing don’t go just for price, go for quality and relationship. A lot of it is relationship based. Find out which companies your friends have used and see what their experiences have been. Take referrals. When someone calls our office and says, “So and so referred me,” it really means a lot. We know that if we don’t treat these people with the proper attention, and then they go back and tell their friend that the referral they gave was terrible, we’re losing two customers and not just one. We always tend to take those referrals very seriously.

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Learn more about CD & DVD Manufacturing by visiting the Breakthroughaudio.com.

Itaal Shur is a Grammy winning songwriter, multi-instrumentalist and producer and who is probably best known for co-writing the massive single “Smooth” that re-launched Santana’s career.  In addition to writing with Rob Thomas of Matchbox 20 on “Smooth”, Itaal has also written songs with or for Carol King, Ricky Martin, Maxwell, Jewel and Lucy Woodward.  As one of the most common questions I get from artists is “How do I co-write or write songs for other artists?”  I figured I’d ask a guy who has done it many times over with great success.  I caught up with Itaal via Skype.  He was in Rio De Janeiro just finishing up a new album of his own music.

Music Consultant:

Itaal, thanks for your time.  I know you moved to New York in the early 90s.  Tell me about how assimilated into the musician community as a kid who just came to NY and didn’t have many contacts or resources?

IS:

I want to preface everything I say right now with…  Actually have you read Malcom Gladwell’s new book Outliers?

Music Consultant:

I haven’t. I’ve read two of his other books…

IS:

He talks about how external factors play into and aid your path to success.  We want to believe that it’s all hard work and determination but there are these external factors that happen which we could call “luck,” that enable you to achieve certain successes, like Bill Gates had a chance to program computers at age 16 because there was one at his school. Where the same guy with the same intelligence would not have had that opportunity and thus probably would not have had the road to success that Gates had.

It’s a pretty nerdy world we live in right now. It’s not like, “Hey, let’s get high and play music and some manager will take care of me and a record company will promote, I’m just the artist.” We live in a very hands-on, nerdy, “I’m promoting myself’ kind of world more than ever before. So the story is so much different now in terms of music. I’m just saying this so people realize that the world has changed a lot and some of the things that helped me might not work nowadays.

Music Consultant:

I agree that things have changed but I do also have a certain belief that people haven’t changed in spite of all the technology, and the way you navigate through the world – it might have different forms today – but that having a method of socializing and building a community is very important.

IS:

Yes, but the music business and the way the monetary aspect of the music business is has changed a lot, and that’s a big thing…

Music Consultant:

No argument here.  Take me back to the beginning.

IS:

I was born in L.A. and grew up in Seattle and Cincinnati. My father was a very well-known composer of Jewish music. He’s a professor at Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati – liturgical music.  He’s one of the foremost composers of Jewish music. My mom’s a choreographer.  I was born in a big family full of musicians. In Cincinnati I had already been in a band that was really successful in the whole tri-state area. We had record companies looking at us and played to a lot of people.  I had already had some success, but then I stopped all that and went to music school and studied jazz for a while.  I went to college for only one year at the College Conservatory of Music in Cincinnati, and I studied jazz and arranging and composition.  I already knew a lot because I was a music fiend. I already had a music studio and had a lot of equipment that I bought on my own money working.  I was already producing and making things happen in Cincinnati. What brought me to New York actually was that I was supposed to go to the New School, but that didn’t turn out. I was interested in the whole downtown Knitting Factory avant-garde scene.  I already had experience in all kinds of other music, so that’s what I thought was the new, fresh thing. When I came to New York I went to see a lot of shows and things that I liked, but I had to work for a while. It took about three years for me to get to a point where I could make my living only from music. I was working as a waiter, but I played a lot of piano bars – which they had a lot more of in those days. I would go and improvise for hours while people ate dinner, or I would play at open mic nights and play for singers and take whatever gig I could.

Music Consultant:

Tell me about that hustle a little bit, because I know tons of musicians in New York that are having trouble getting gigs.

IS:

I knew some people when I came to New York. I knew this really great guitar player named Jean Paul Borelli, he was part of the Knitting Factory scene, and he was really open and nice to me. He introduced a lot of people to me. I would go to the Village Voice and look for gigs, and since I played piano I would try to get gigs accompanying people. I would look in the Village Voice and there were always singers looking for accompanists, or I would go to open mic nights and went there and asked if I could play the piano there. I’m not the best sight reader, but give me chords and a lead sheet, and I can improvise.  I can fake almost any song because I hear the harmony in my head, if that makes any sense.  I didn’t need sheet music I could just say, “What are the chords?” and start playing…

I started to meet people because I would hang out. I met this Moroccan guy, Hassan Hakmoun who became pretty well known. He worked with Peter Gabriel and had a band called Zahar that I saw on TV when David Sandborn had that after-hours show. I met him through someone else, and he said, “Do you want to be in my band?” And we were playing the Knitting Factory and a lot of great places. He was mixing Moroccan music with funk and rock. We did that for a while. Then what happened was that I was looking for gigs and playing gigs, but there were a lot of cats I met that were way better than me in terms of jazz. They could just pick up anything and play it super fast. I’m a good improviser but more a composer who improvises if that makes any sense.

Music Consultant:

When did the Giant Step / Groove Collective thing come about?

*** Editor’s note – if you were seeing shows in the NYC area in the 90s you would remember the Acid Jazz / funk nights promoted by Giant Step – it was a real movement and a real moment in time.  Groove Collective was one of the flagship artists of this movement***

IS:

I was kind of on the outs of this avant-garde jazz scene. I wasn’t deep in it, but what happened was that I started to really not like that music anymore. It was interesting, but my pop side started to come out and songs again. What happened was the first year I was working tons of jobs and had gigs here and there with Jean Paul and piano gigs and sometimes some other people, and then I met Hassan and started playing with him and started getting more into that world of playing gigs.

Then around ‘91 or ‘92 I saw an ad for Giant Step and went there at S.O.B.s and there were four people. I met the flute player and said, “I want to play here.” And he let me play there, and that’s really what helped me right there. I was working at World Yacht as a back waiter delivering food on these big boats. I started to play there on Thursdays, and we started to just play funky jazz with a DJ and it stated to become the thing. It really opened up my whole social and music life, and then we started to say, “Hey, let’s start the Groove Collective.” I think I had one more stint as a job, but in the meantime this whole time also I was working with singers and had some equipment like 4-tracks and sequencers and I was doing demos for people writing songs. And I would do a song for $100. I would write and produce.

There are two things that really changed my life. First, my brother loaned me money to buy a sampler, and I started to play with Groove Collective. Once I got a sampler, I could sample beats and I could get into hip hop and have all the beats, but we had to buy those records or ask people to give you songs on disk. That’s when my production started to get better. I was in Groove Collective, and we started to get more popular, and Giant Step started to get more popular – we started to meet more and more and more people and then at the same time I met some other people that started to like my productions, and I remember my last job, I would go to work and stay up all night doing beats – R&B and all kinds of beats. I had break-beats now, so my sound sounded current, because I wasn’t using drum machines anymore. If you’ll remember in the early 90s everything was about break-beats. That just pushed me into a whole other thing, and I started to meet people. I met Maxwell and D’Angelo and all these other people, and I also had this manager who would take my stuff to the record companies and get me real productions for $8,000-$10,000. And then I started meeting all these other performers.  I was doing their music for them and waiting for them to get deals. So I was hustling as a producer and hustling in Groove Collective.  I was always interested in doing my projects. I only did those piano gigs to make money, but once I didn’t have to do that anymore I stopped.

I hung out a lot. I was young and not just a nerdy musician. I was going to clubs and meeting girls and enjoying New York. I had no money, but I was out there trying to make things happen. I was always looking at different options. I was writing demos for people, trying to write songs with other artists. But the Groove Collective was what brought me visibility.  When Groove Collective blew up in New York, and we had huge shows. It was just like this spontaneous reaction. I was part of a movement that happens once in a while that people latch onto for a good three or five years.

Music Consultant:

Giant Step nights were big. I saw you, I saw Jamiroquai, I saw so many people from that kind of sound.

IS:

It was just this spontaneous happening, and I just happened to be a part of it. Those are the lucky things that happened – these things that you fall into.  I also think I’m a pretty good social person. I’m good with people…

Music Consultant:

It sounds like you network well. I don’t think people end up in those things because they are unpleasant in a social situation or look at their shoes the whole time.

IS:

Yeah. I was also interested in meeting a lot of girls and really having a good time in New York. I wanted to enjoy myself. The first couple years were kind of tough, but I started to get more of a New Yorker and enjoying myself and going out. Even when you’re hustling, you are saying, “This is a great city, and I want to enjoy myself.” There was a very spontaneous thing that happened at that time. There was the meeting of the minds of a lot of people.

Music Consultant:

When did you start getting calls from people who were established for your production skills? How did you make that transition?

IS:

I already had some stuff from people that were established, but it just didn’t come through. I had demos with them – new artists that were signed to labels. What happened was I just made tons of instrumentals, everywhere from straight-up Dre funk or Sade type music and some Nirvana-ish stuff. I was just making instrumentals, and those instrumentals got me in the door, because they could see that I was really versatile and I could do a lot of different kinds of stuff. They liked my stuff, and it was all on cassette. Having a lot of instrumentals can help a songwriter, because there’s a lot of room for someone to visualize what’s on top or who could be the singer. That’s why hip hop producers are not producers in the same sense as Mutt Lang, where they are responsible for incredible vocal production and a huge sound. They write a hot beat, and that hot beat gives them 50% publishing if it’s just with them and the rapper. But they don’t have to write any melodies. Most of them, that is. But what I’m getting at is that their beat or instrumental is what drives the music, and that’s what’s driven pop music except for band-driven music – hip hop and dance, which has turned into pop music. Basically, it comes from an instrumental standpoint and not from a words and melody standpoint, because the instrumental is what has changed the sound of music. The songs, I don’t think they are much different from 20-30 years ago. You hear a lot of songs on the radio, and they could’ve been done 15 years ago. They’re not that strikingly different. But it’s the sounds and the beats and everything else. That’s what really helped me a lot:  sitting around making beats all the time and recording and recording and making new sounds so I could show people what I had.

What happened is, through that, with Groove Collective I met Maxwell and we worked together and wrote “Ascension.” I worked with Angie Stone when she had a band called Vertical Horizon. I was going to labels also a lot. I had a manager at the time who got me a lot of meetings with labels. And I would go there and play my instrumentals and he would say, “Hey, do you want to work with So-and-So?” And then Maxwell had some luck with “Ascension,” which actually became a classic R&B song. And then I had a manager from England who was sending me a lot of people from England. The thing is, it’s a numbers game, and you just have to keep writing all the time. You never know when something’s going to work when you’re working with an artist.

I worked with some artists for a few years, but they kind of lacked some ambition to take it to the next level when they had everything going for them. Some of them had deals but they were dropped. I was always working and making things happen. I did some re-mixes too. And another thing that started to happen was I started making all these dance instrumentals and went to small dance labels, and they would give me $1,000 to make small dance tracks. That paid the bills too. And then I did this record Big Muff on Maxi. They gave me not much — $8,000 to do a whole record, but I took it because I didn’t have any money. And I had a whole cool eclectic dance album that had some really great songs on it that people still play in certain lounge compilations. I was doing things at all ends. I was trying to make money at the same time playing with Groove Collective.

Music Consultant:

It sounds like above all else, you’ve consistently written. You’ve consistently put music out.

IS:

Always. I’ve been hustling on all fronts. What happened after Maxwell was that I wanted to do my own thing. So I started working on songwriting again and really working on writing real songs, not just beats. I put a band together of my own music.  Lucy Woodward was in my band, and actually Genji from Groove Collective played in my band. We played in a lot of places, and had some labels kind of interested. But at the same time, my new manager told me Santana was looking, and I wrote “Smooth” and kind of abandoned my own project for a while.

I was basically following my muse, and I never became a copycat. I always kind of did my thing, and there was a lot of luck in it. Some of the things I did people liked, and then I would work with people too. But I was always trying to make things I liked. I was never that guy that said, “I’m going to make that song that sounds just like Lady Gaga.”

Music Consultant:

There’s a lot of that out there.

IS:

Yes, which is a whole other kind of thing, which is a very strategic way of making music, and which I have nothing against at all. I know people like that and they are really good at that. But music has always been my life, so I always have to enjoy what I’m doing. If I don’t enjoy music, I’ll do something else.

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I will post part two of my interview with Itaal in a few days where he talks about the plans for his current album and gives words of warning and advice to aspiring artists. In the meantime check out Itaal Shur

For whatever reason the story of “Stone Soup” has come up in my coaching sessions with a few different clients over the last several weeks. I kind of thought it was a story that everyone knew but either I got told some strange stories as a kid or it just wasn’t as popular as I thought.

For those not familiar with the story-

Once upon a time there was a great famine in which people hoarded whatever food they could find, hiding it even from their friends and neighbors. One day a wandering soldier came into a village and began asking questions as if he planned to stay for the night.  There is no food anywhere in the village,” he was told. ” You had better keep moving on.”

“I have everything I need,” the soldier said. “In fact, I was thinking of making some stone soup to share with all of you.” He pulled an iron cauldron from his belongings, filled it with water, and built a fire under it. Then, with great ceremony, he drew an ordinary-looking stone from a velvet bag and dropped it into the water.

By now, hearing the rumor of food, most of the villagers had come to the square or watched from their windows. As the soldier sniffed the “broth” and licked his lips in anticipation, hunger began to overcome their skepticism.

“Mmmmm,” the soldier said to himself rather loudly, “I do like a tasty stone soup. Of course, stone soup with carrots — that’s hard to beat.”

Soon a villager approached hesitantly, holding some carrots he’d retrieved from a hiding place, and added them to the pot. “Great!” said the soldier. “You know, I once had stone soup with carrots and a bit of beef as well, and it was close to perfection.”

The village butcher managed to find some beef  and so it went, through potatoes, onions, cabbage, mushrooms, and so on, until there was a delicious meal for everyone.

I am always talking about the importance of community building as a musician or just the importance of just being a part of a community and clearly that is the moral of the story here.  People working together accomplished what one person clearly could not – but whether real or imagined I always come up with something more than the obvious from Stone Soup that applies to a life in the arts.  In the digital age “dude releases record” is far from headline news – there has to be much more going on to move the needle for the jaded and over saturated modern audience.  Whenever I am doing marketing for a new client I always cross my fingers that some member of the group has been silently doing something amazing to tap into a built in niche (Jack Johnson and his amazing Surf documentaries) or has great coattails to ride on (think What Dr. Dre did for Eminmen).  This sadly isn’t going to be the story for a majority of the artists out there.  Most will have to rely on the smallest of victories and parlay those into the next tiny victory until such time as the cumulative effect is meaningful.  Most will have to be pioneers and do their best to continue their journey and hang on to their faith while trying to ignore the omnipresent fact that pioneers sometimes get arrows in their back.

Faith.

A guy drops a stone into a pot of water and hopes beyond reason that such an action will feed him.  Crazy?  If you are reading this then chances are you want people to pay you to make noises.  I guess it’s all relative but I digress…

For simplicity’s sake let’s apply stone soup to a an upcoming gig rather than an entire music career.  You get booked at a local bar and invite what friends and family and people you have met along life’s highway.  Congrats!  You are now boiling a rock surrounded by indifferent villagers!  More often than not though – people stop here and it’s not always enough.  Who do you know?  What makes this story more compelling?  Chances are you know other musicians and musicians who are a bit further along than you are.  Can you invite another band to do a cover song with you or even just a vocalist or guitarist to sit in on one of your tunes?  If so – you just added your second ingredient.

The show should be an easier sell from here on out.  It is now your band featuring members of another band who is bigger than you are and you can suggest that both bands promote this to their mailing list because let’s face it- everyone needs something other than “show up and see us again” to talk about on their mailing list.  The other wonderful part about this is that no matter how small of an investment of time or energy from another person or group – you have someone else who is invested in the success of your show.  The dude who threw in the first ingredient to the stone soup – Mr. Carrots – the story never talks about it but I bet that guy helped knock on some doors to help the cause after he had skin in the game.

Now what?  Does anyone have an in at the local college?  Can you get the promoter to knock off a few bucks on the ticket price for students with a valid college ID?  If so – you’ve got a really good excuse to wander down to the local college radio station and tell them that your band is playing a show featuring members of a bigger band and college students get a discount.  If the radio station bites you then have a show for your band featuring members of a bigger band and students get a discount- oh and the local college station is supporting the show.

These “ingredients” can be anything but no show should just be a show – it should be an event and no band should just be a bunch of people on stage – they should be musicians who have accomplished x,y & z and played with a,b & c… etc etc…  And their stories should grow one small victory, one resume bullet point at a time.

More soon,

-R-

David Rose from Knowthemusicbiz.com was kind enough to let me republish the article below that I wrote for him a while back.  If you haven’t already please check out his site.  I will have more new interviews and articles starting up again next week.

I was once told a story about Bill Murray and Hunter S. Thompson.  I can’t verify the specifics of the story but I suppose for the purposes of this article it doesn’t much matter.  During the production of the 1980 Film “Where the Buffalo Roam”, in which Murray was to play a young Hunter Thompson, he met Hunter poolside so he could get a good idea of what the famously eccentric writer was really like.  In response to the question “What is it like to be you?” Thompson tied Murray up to a deckchair and threw him in the pool.

Such is the position of most artists in the music business – floundering in the water and trying their damndest not to drown in spite of overwhelming circumstances.

I run a music business consultancy which is what this blog helps me promote – not that I don’t enjoy content creation.  This business was something I put together after having been a musician on and off for twenty years and having done A&R at Major labels for almost a decade.  As a result of actively promoting this business I get contacted by several strangers every day who are looking to make it in the music industry.  It never ceases to amaze me that in this day and age with all of the tools now available to artists that people are still looking for that one person, that one opportunity or a chance encounter that is going to propel them to superstardom.  That’s not to say that I mind being contacted – far from it!  It’s just that the type of questions I get can be really disturbing.  “Can you get me a record deal?” or  “Hey – I just need a manager and I’m going to make millions!  You need to introduce me to great managers.”

Really?  Last I checked it was 2010.

Chances are if you are reading this – it doesn’t apply to you but from what I have seen this is still the prevailing mindset of many aspiring artists.  I believe those with this mindset won’t make it – period.

In my opinion if you are going to make a living making music – let alone “making it”- you have to own the following:

·         There is no help coming for you

·         The age of the “big break” is all but over.

·         The one person who will help your career more than anyone is you.

Harsh? Yes.  Hopeless?  Not at all.

Let this empower you.  You no longer need to spend a great deal of time chasing management, booking agents or labels.   I am not suggesting that any of these types of strategic partners aren’t helpful but I do find that many artists seek to engage partners far too early in the trajectory of their careers.  Before you seek out someone to partner with you ask yourself the following questions:

·         Have you played out locally on a regular basis for at least six months?

·         Do you have a corporate entity and an intra-band agreement?

·          Have you trademarked your name?

·         Are you registered with a Performance Royalties Organization? (ASCAP, BMI, SEASAC)

·         Do you have a professional looking website for your project and a presence on social networks?

·         Have you made “no apology” recordings of your songs that you think are representative of your ability?

·         Do you have a bio on your musical career that doesn’t peak when you were eight years old and taking piano lessons?

·         Do you maintain an ongoing online and offline positive relationship with a large group of people you could call fans without feeling funny about it or including your parents and extended family?

If you answered no then your business is not yet off the ground.  You don’t yet have a viable and fully formed product.  In any business it is very difficult to get an investment for a blueprint concept or an idea.  Getting funding for a start up business becomes much easier the more time and effort (and money) the entrepreneur puts into it.  You have to remember that seeking out management, agents or labels is asking someone to invest in you.  It might not be financial investment but the amount of time a partner like this would need to devote to developing an artist’s career is usually a full time job.  What do you bring to the table other than your talent?

It’s true – people who interact with artists a great deal are often jaded (Yes, me too.  Couldn’t you tell?)  The failure rate in music and the arts in general is astounding.  If you really want to get the attention of competent and experienced handlers you have to be the one to get your career moving on your own.  If you make enough noise long enough people will find you.  Overnight successes that are examined closely are very rarely (as in go by lotto tickets instead) a case of someone being struck by the thunderbolt of fame whilst daydreaming and smoking dope in the parent’s basement.

What’s the good news?  There are now plenty of sites that provide information and insight and dozens of tools to help you get your music heard for low or no cost.  This makes it harder to rise above all of the noise (because everyone with a mic can be a singer in this day and age) but it is still a viable way to start.

Go find other artists and build a community.  Relationships with your peers when starting out are usually more valuable than industry relationships.  If you are able to surround yourself with several developing artists who are in your situation and perhaps even endear yourself to people who have put in a bit more legwork than you this will help a great deal.  Being able to market yourself to the fans of similar acts is almost the whole name of the game in the beginning so along those lines – go make friends!

Long story short (too late?) – before you spend time and effort chasing big league help, make sure you have maxed out your ability to do everything within your reach to convert strangers to friends, friends to fans and fans to fans who will actually purchase your products.  If you do that long enough and well enough even in a small town – industry will find you.

Good luck out there…

Jonathan Cargill is a partner in the Labels Jagjaguwar, Secretly Canadian, Dead Oceans and the companies Bellwether Manufacturing and SC Distribution.  He makes management decisions for all of these companies but his areas of expertise are publicity and music licensing / placement.  Jonathan and his partners have had a great deal of success of late with artists like Bon Iver, Black Mountain, Okkervil River and Antony and the Johnsons.

Musician Coaching:

First of all – tell me how you got into the business and wound up running all these different companies?

JC:

I knew I was going to be involved with music. I thought I was going to be a rock star, but I definitely learned very early that I wasn’t going to be a rock star.   I was managing a cafeteria at a university dormitory, and one of my employees – someone I had connected with and who had similar musical tastes and career aspirations – ended up being my partner Chris Swanson. After talking for at least a year, we decided, “Let’s just jump in and do this.” So he called upon his brother, and we pooled our collective savings. We knew of an artist, so we raised the money to press his CD. And once we had the CD, we realized we had to do something with these. We jumped in and figured it out and made a lot of calls and found distributors and a store. We just got some lucky breaks early on to the point where we had distributors and their attention, and it grew from there.

Musician Coaching:

About how long ago was this and which of these companies came first?

JC:

This was Secretly Canadian in 1996. Our first release was an album called “Gloria Hole” by June Panic, which came out September of 1996. It just grew from there, to give you more in-depth background about what goes on here in Bloomington, Indiana. After a couple years of doing Secretly Canadian, we connected with Darius Van Arman who was running Jagjaguar Records by himself in Charlottesville, VA. We connected with him because we saw some early Jagjaguar releases in stores that were compared to Secretly Canadian artists, which made us intrigued. We got to know Darius, and in 1998, Darius moved Jagjaguar from Charlottesville to Bloomington to hang out with us and have a little brain trust of struggling labels. From there, things kind of happened organically. We also have Bellwether Manufacturing and SE Distribution running out of our office. Those came about organically because we realized we were paying too much to get our CD’s manufactured. So we did a bunch of research and cut out the middleman and started working with CD manufacturing plants directly. That’s pretty much how distribution came about, because we a) didn’t have distribution and b) the people we worked with weren’t paying, so we took matters into our own hands.

Fast forward to today- we run the companies Secretly Canadian, Jagjaguar, Dead Oceans, Bellwether Manufacturing and SE Distribution out of our offices.

Musician Coaching:

You are a partner in all of these companies but what are your areas of expertise?

JC:

From the beginning, we all realized that we’re all partners and we all make macro decisions, but we have to specialize and have a division of labor. We found that pretty naturally, because we had people that were interested or had the expertise. Since there were four of us with four different backgrounds, we naturally went to our own positions. For the first eleven years I was the publicist for Secretly Canadian and Jagjaguar. Then as we hired more publicists, my role morphed. That’s when I got into the film and TV licensing. That happened out of necessity because we were getting a lot of inquiries and not really knowing what to do with them or how to handle them. I stepped up to learn how to do all that.

Musician Coaching:

I am guessing that because the phone was ringing you were able to build relationships and did a handful of cold calling as well to build up a roster of people to place with?  Is that how that worked?

JC:

Definitely. I did it the same way I built up the Rolodex of publicity contacts but with film and TV executives. It was figuring out who’s who and how to contact them.

Musician Coaching:

You really had to build this from scratch.

JC:

Yeah, but I don’t know what else I was doing, so I figured I’d just jump in and make it work. The first six years of Secretly Canadian, I also had a full-time job. It was just a super hobby, because the label was also another 40 hours. It got to the point where something had to give, and I decided to follow rock and roll. It was really a tough decision because I was taking a large pay cut and jumping into the unknown, but I just knew it was something I wanted to do.

Musician Coaching: What attracts you to an artist that makes you consider putting their records out on either of the labels you work with?  What do you look for in an artist?

JC: It’s a mixture of things that makes an artist attractive. The gateway is the music, and it has to be unanimous that we’re feeling the same about the music. There are times where someone is on the fence or didn’t like it, but there’s a due process for any band that someone really likes. We all have to connect on it.  The magic combo is artists that make great music, aren’t afraid to work, achieve the things they want and just aren’t assholes. That’s kind of the way we look at it. We’ve been pretty fortunate with finding artists who have these qualities.

The way we look at it is we’re not in the business to release one record by a band and then try to cash in and walk away from it. There are a lot of labels that do that, and that’s not what we’re about. It’s a partnership. “We’ll bust our ass for you and this is what we can offer.” We don’t tell them this, but it’s an understanding, “We hope that you’ll bust your ass and do such and such thing. Don’t be afraid to tour, connect with your fans with your website or MySpace. Do things that bands should be doing if they want to get heard.” I think symbiotic relationships are ultimately the most successful.

Musician Coaching:

How are you finding the role of being a label now that there are so many tools are in artists’ hands?

JC:

There are definitely bands that I don’t know why they come to us because they act like they don’t need us or necessarily want us, and that’s fine. There are plenty of bands that can do that. We’re really transparent and say, “This is who we are, this is what we offer, this is what we think we can do.”

Musician Coaching:

In your particular case that’s your licensing and PR relationships. What do the others focus on?

JC:

We have robust and timely accounting. We’re very transparent.  The steps we take can be seen by our artists. They get their statements from us, and they know what we spent and where we spent it and the money they made, where it’s all going. That’s a big thing. I think there are labels that don’t do well with accounting.  We have in-house manufacturing and distribution, so we know they’ll get a quality product; their albums are going to look good and sound great. We also have a network to get their CD’s in stores or onto digital service providers.

Musician Coaching:

I would guess you are getting good placement in the indie retailers that matter.

JC:

I think so. We’ve had relationships with these stores for over a decade now. That’s particularly good for us, because all members of the label are also project managers. We all have our own bands that we work with. If they have any questions or there’s any problem with the distribution, we can just walk over there and ask why there aren’t CD’s in a particular store, etc.

Musician Coaching:

What advice would you give for artists looking to get more press and looking to get their material licensed?

JC:

I think for press, it’s easier now than ever. The whole blog explosion has definitely leveled the playing field a bit. First of all, I think it’s good for a band to be very realistic. If you think you recorded an album and now you’re going to be on the cover of Alternative Press, it doesn’t work that way. I personally think it’s easy for bands – especially unsigned bands – to create a ground swell that will attract the attention of labels, booking agents, promoters, bigger publications. I think that’s been the big revolution in media recently.

Musician Coaching:

Do you think by going after enough attainable periodicals and blogs, someone can snowball that into getting bigger and better press and opportunities?

JC:

I think so.  Especially f a band can couple that with being on the road a lot. It’s always good for a band to tour as much as they can and as much as they can afford. That’s where you’re going to connect with your audience. That’s what I want. If I hear a record I really like, I want to go see them and see how they do it live and get a sense of their personality. I think that’s what drives fans and what being a fan is. That’s how you attract them – by creating an attention. Blogs can do that, and if you have some blog in Minneapolis talking about your band and show up in a week or a couple days, it starts to connect. People remember your name and they tell their friends. I think the whole grassroots thing is incredibly important and very strong.

Musician Coaching:

What about on the licensing front?

JC:

That’s a different beast. There are plenty of success stories of unknown bands getting key placements. With bigger magazines – if you’re shooting for Rolling Stone – you’re someone at the mercy of the editor. If the editor likes it, then he assigns it to a writer. I think it’s the same way with licensing to film and TV. You have to find the right music supervisor. They either have to really like it, or it just has to be the perfect song for the perfect scene. That’s the wild card with film and TV. It has to be right for the scene. It’s hard for some bands to understand that, and they ask, “How come we’re not on Grey’s Anatomy?”

Musician Coaching:

I would imagine it’s a lot easier for you than for an artist doing this on their own, because you’re calling constantly and not just with one band’s worth of material.

JC:

Right. I also get a lot of searches for supervisors that will call looking for the perfect cue for a scene, and it’s incredibly specific. A lot of times, I just don’t have anything for that. 90% of the time it’s that way. That could be anything. But that connection is, you just have to get you music heard by the right people. Because when the right scene comes up and you have the perfect song for it, it’s going to happen. You just have to make sure they know to look for your song.

Musician Coaching:

Any advice on doing that? Get your music heard in a way that’s not obtrusive?

JC:

Finding these people is not that hard – that’s what Google is for. There are hundreds of people selling mailing lists. I don’t know the validity of those places, but when I started, I went online and for $30 bought a mailing list that had music contacts of film production and TV production companies, or directly to music supervisors and just started sending them music. Sending the CD in the mail is not obtrusive at all because that’s these people’s job. Their job is to absorb as much music as they can so they can find a perfect home for it. They are actually seeking music, you just have to meet their demand. It’s obtrusive if you’re calling them every day saying, “Hey – place my music in Grey’s Anatomy.”

————

Check out what Jonathan and his partners are up to at Jagjaguwar, Secretly Canadian, Dead Oceans, Bellwether Manufacturing and SC Distribution

I got the chance to catch up with my friend Emily White of Whitesmith Entertainment and her client Sebastian, who is the self-described drummer and occasional guitar player for Family of the Year.  Many of you have not heard of Family of the Year and that was kind of the idea.  I want to follow the path of a group that is just starting off their career under the guidance of a gifted manager.  I got to catch up Emily and Sebastian just before CMJ.

Musician Coaching:

Sebastian, what is your role business-wise for Family of the Year?

S:

My role is the day-to-day task manager of the band – the liaison between Emily and her team and all the other members of the team. I do scheduling, logistics, etc.

EW:

He’s done an amazing job making sure we’re staying on track. We self-released an EP last month that was donation based and that’s been going really, really well. And we’re releasing their debut album next month. There’s a lot that goes into that:  the artwork and producing the CD’s and mastering and everything that goes into that. Sebastian has been amazing making sure everybody’s staying on track.

S:

The group has naturally evolved into each person having a specific role. No one was assigned anything they didn’t want to take on. My brother (Joseph – guitar / vox in FOTY) is incredibly inclined when it comes to producing and recording music.  It was his major project to write this music and record it.  That was his natural ability.  We’ve got another guy James who has extensive audio engineering background, so he’s at the shows dealing with the technical stuff. We have whiz kids on computers as far as social networking stuff: Christina and Vanessa. Brent is our graphic designer and will eventually take over our website management. He’s been putting Vanessa’s hand-drawn art into the computers in order for us to be able to create all our merchandise and our CD art. It’s naturally turned into a finely-tuned machine.

Musician Coaching:

And you guys are from Silver Lake?

S:

Originally my brother and I are from Massachusetts and the two girls are from Orange County, CA. The two other guys are from the south. One’s from Louisiana and the other is from Jacksonville, FL. We formed in Silver Lake and we now reside a few miles from Silver Lake. We all moved into a big house that we’re rebuilding in the hills outside L.A.

Musician Coaching:

It’s kind of nice you have different sets of friends in different markets.  You must save money on hotel costs.

S:

It certainly does.

EW:

We also do that on the road.  The band bought a 1986 RV, so we haven’t spent anything on hotels.  They all crash together, and sometimes there’s a filmmaker or a sound guy or me, and everybody sleeps pretty well in it.

S:

There are seven of us right now. There’s the band and then Chris.   He’s actually making a documentary about the band.  He’s been traveling with us on and off over the last couple months. Emily is going to be joining us.  It’s usually quite a packed vehicle and really fun … and economical, really.

Musician Coaching:

I first heard of you guys about 90 days ago.  What experiences did you guys have with nationwide touring, either individually or as a group prior to 90 days ago?

S:

We had some experience, but not an extensive amount.  We basically had several DIY tours that we had put together, but we’d never worked with a booking agent.

EW:

These were other bands also.

S:

My brother and James and I used to play in a band together back in Boston for years called Unbusted.  Mostly we were in Boston and New York and the Northeast, but we did go out on the road a few times.  But they were DIY tours, and it was really hard and really expensive and kind of heartbreaking.  You get yourself so very excited, but if the framework isn’t there and you’re not getting yourself out there, then you’re not going to make money and you’re not really going to attract attention.  For years back in Boston when we first knew Emily, she was juggling college and interning and a supporter of our music.  She was on the ball back in the day telling us about mailing lists, social networking websites and things like that. She told us, “This is the way it’s going to be,” and we would say, “No, we’re traditional band that is going to keep playing club after club and wowing people, and soon people will be showing up by the thousands.”  Sure enough, we were wrong. We had some experience touring, but it wasn’t effective touring.  You could go out there and spend two years touring the states, but if certain pieces aren’t in place it’s not going to be a good experience.  We had fun, but as far as trying to build a career and a following and selling albums, it’s next to impossible if you don’t have the correct presence online.  I think that’s the major factor these days.  The biggest difference is an ability to connect with fans.  It’s the only avenue these days.

Musician Coaching:

What has been the difference this time? How did you go about getting a booking agent?

S:

I honestly think it was the strength of the recordings that Joseph and Vanessa had made.  The music was never really intended on being released.  It was really a love child of theirs.  They spent a year and a half in their apartment in Silver Lake recording this music together and falling in love and recording these songs.  It was really a natural, beautiful thing that was turned into our product.  I think that’s what has given us all a chance.  We were reaching out with a lot of people.  I was pretty much going through my Rolodex and saying, “Let me call up everyone I know to pull that one favor.”  I contacted anybody whether they’d slighted us or been really great to us.  I was standing in line at the DMV sending off e-mails.  We were just really excited about what was happening with this band.  We had just formed, we had a couple of really great concerts coming up and we were really excited about the music, and I reflected that in an e-mail to Emily and she came back immediately excited.  And she started kicking butt and churning up some interest from their end.

Musician Coaching:

That’s important to ask you about too.  People have different projects throughout their lives.  Did this feel different?

S:

100%, yes. It is a totally different monster.  Everybody has their teenage/high school band and has high hopes and hometown dreams to fulfill.  And then if you’re not one of those lucky few bands that makes it with your high school buddies, you have your sophomore slump with your next band. We formed another group called the Billionaires that achieved some kind of minor local success in L.A.  We played some really great shows, released some albums, sold some copies but that was a major turning point.  We went from being a small town, hard rock, raw group of kids that moved to the city and matured and settled into songwriting.  Joe always had the ability to write a good song, but I think the music and voice kind of naturally emerged.  It felt different because it felt really right.  We all agreed we could play with this band in any situation, whether it was Madison Square Garden or someone’s kitchen.  That’s really a great feeling, and it’s not just about sound, being too loud or too quiet.  It’s a matter of being really comfortable with it and it representing us.

EW:

They made incredible recordings.  But the reason they were able to do that is because they’ve been musicians for so long. I have other people saying, “How is this happening so quickly?”  Well, although it appears that it’s happening quickly, these guys have been in bands, they’ve played SXSW, they’ve done the DIY tours so they really know what it’s like.  I loved them in college, but they’ve developed so well, and it really shows.  People like us that are listening to music all day, when we hear really great music and really great songwriting, that’s really going to stand out.

S:

I guess I neglected to mention that half the band had been playing music forever, putting on concerts since we were ten with aspirations to become rock stars.  What’s great about the other half of the band is that they haven’t.  We have half junior veterans and half greenhorns.  It keeps it really interesting and fresh for everyone.

Musician Coaching:

I noticed on the website that you guys are doing the name-your-own-price for the CDs. I know a lot of people have advocated this approach. How has it worked for you so far?

S:

It’s been fantastic.  It’s just great.  Everyone gets our music.  I think it’s tough to force someone to pay for something these days, especially when it’s our first release.  We just want to get our music out there.  It’s worked out really well because we end up with the information that is their e-mail address, which I think is more valuable than five dollars.  In the end, we’re bulking up our fan base.  It’s about getting direct to the fans, so this has expedited it.

EW:

We own the rights, so we’re able to do that. And the average donation has been about ten dollars.  Obviously beyond that it’s amazing, because of course, if you can give the band your money, that’s fantastic.  They have a really great artist statement that’s really upfront:  the money goes to gas and bringing these people to your town.  But beyond that, we do just want the word spread.  And if it’s a poor college student that can’t afford anything, awesome, we just want you to hear the music and come out to a show.

S:

We’ve had people pay fifty dollars, we’ve had a thousand people pay nothing.  It doesn’t bother us.  We want the music out there.  I would give anybody a physical copy for free in person if they wanted it.

Musician Coaching:

How long have you been collecting addresses, and how many (ballpark) would you say you have?

EW:

We have been collecting since September 22^nd when it was released.  I think we’ve had 2,000 page views, a few hundred downloads and it’s definitely gone well.  We’re literally using that to spend on Facebook ads, posters and reinvest in the band right away.

S:

Just reinvesting and reaching out a little further.  It’s great to spread out the money and invest a little more. We’re not pocketing it.

EW:

Sebastian had a great point about data collection.  It’s wonderful for me to see these e-mail addresses, the countries, the person’s name.  I write back to some people and say, “You’re in Australia, how did you hear about this band?”

S:

We’ve got these great Google analytics coming through.  Greece is number three (The third ranked country for FOTY web traffic).  It’s really cool and great information.  It’s fantastic to be able to see the information and reach out to them.  The whole world is conspiring right now to help the indie band.

EW:

Our number one traffic generator has been Twitter.  That’s great, because it’s the band interacting with fans and with other artists, and it’s making a huge difference.  We’re going to do a similar thing for their album release next month.  It’s going to be a donation-based album, a 15-song album.  Anybody that pays over ten dollars is going to get a physical copy.  We’ll probably do a couple other tiers too.

Musician Coaching:

How about the postcard campaign?

(To help fund their trip to CMJ Family of the Year offered fans personalized post cards from the road for a $5 donation)

S:

It’s going great.  We’ve had a huge response to it.  I don’t know how many we’ve done, but we’ve done a bunch.  It’s fun for the band.  It’s old school Twitter.  It’s direct to the people, and people want that.  I know I would want that if I was falling in love with a band again.

EW:

People like to know that they’re helping out.  I went to Jill Sobule’s show last night, and she brought the fan up on stage that had donated the most amount of money on her album, and she wrote a song for that fan and did a duet with her and I almost cried.  The fan literally helped make this album.

S:

We’ve had several people purchase several postcards. It’s overwhelming that if you give people the opportunity to help out, so many people will take that opportunity.

EW:

Cut out the middle person. People really like supporting artists that they’re into, so we’ve been really blessed.

S:

We’ve had a really positive reaction at live shows whenever we mention from the stage that we’re doing this on our own and we need help.  It’s amazing.  People love the idea of it.  It’s not just hoots and hollers.  People actually react and come and purchase stuff.

Musician Coaching:

I was always fond of buying a drink for a band coming through town, but gas money seems a much better use of everybody’s time. What’s this documentary all about?

S:

It just slid in perfectly with work and planning.  Vanessa is an actress and has been one forever.  The DP on the last film she worked on was a fan of our music, and we invited him to come out with us.  He expressed interest in working on a filmed documentary of the band.  It just worked out that he cleared his schedule and just fit in perfectly with the band.  It’s not as if there’s ever any kind of weirdness about this extra person hanging out.  He’s just a great friend of the band.  I don’t know how to describe it, but it just worked out.

EW:

We’re incredibly lucky that it came through. Chris has been busting ass, and I’ll wake up and see him literally sleeping on the RV floor.  He’s amazing.

Musician Coaching:

Are you going to repurpose the footage at all?

S:

We have a five-minute short that’s going to be released soon, though we’re not sure what it’s going to be released with.  Later on after this full tour we’re doing, there’s going to be a twenty to thirty minute documentary of the whole thing.  And it’s really focusing around the band doing it itself.  It’s not just the antics of being on tour.  It’s focusing on what we’re talking about so far.

Musician Coaching:

Is there stuff that you’ve tried that hasn’t work?  Advice to somebody who will ultimately be reading this?

S:

Definitely listen to Emily White. (Laughs) If we had listened to her five years ago we would’ve been a lot further down the road, though I think also if we had, we wouldn’t be here today.  But seriously, I think that in rock and roll, it’s really hard to give the Internet as much credit as it’s due.  Computers aren’t fun, computers aren’t cool, but it’s absolutely critical to be in touch with people.  It’s a new era and a new age.  And be creative.  If you’re having fun people will have fun as well.  Whether you had fun creating your artwork as a group, naming your group or making your album, it does reflect in the product no matter what it is.

EW:

Focusing on the work and the art is important.  The art has to be amazing.  I don’t think musicians should spend more than an hour or two a day on social networking.  They should be rehearsing and writing and recording.  It’s important and needs to be kept up but really cap it at two hours. We’re all here to support these artists and their music.

S:

I guess I neglected to say that because it’s such an automatic thing for me.

EW:

There are so many musicians that get too caught up in all the social networking stuff, and I think that can be overwhelming and dangerous.

Musician Coaching:

Yea, I have found it can be a dangerous time suck as well…

S:

Back to the whole dynamic of the group and the roles.  It’s been amazing that Joe, who is the band leader, producer, songwriter hasn’t been tethered to this business bologna at all.  Of course we all make the decisions together, but he’s not getting on Twitter.

EW:

I don’t want his head in it.  His head needs to be in music all the time.

S:

It’s really been ideal.  If there’s an opportunity to divvy up jobs where it’s stress free, that’s the thing to do.

EW:

These guys are working their asses off.  It’s really impressive.

S:

I want to reiterate “practice.”  We’ve been playing forever, and it still isn’t enough.  We spent six days a week since March from 7 p.m. to 3 a.m. in our rehearsal space.

EW:

I wanted to say on the filmmaker thing, we have to be creative about those partners too.  I know tons of video directors and filmmakers that are used to getting budgets from labels.  But MTV doesn’t exist and YouTube doesn’t always give the rev share people need to get the money back.  For Chris, we haven’t set exactly how we’re going to release that content. But that filmmaker is an artist too, and that’s part of the donation process.

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