Posts Tagged ‘AAA Radio’

Meg MacDonald is a Triple A (AAA) independent radio promotion executive and the founder of M:M Music – one of the top independent promotion companies in the country.  She has brought singles from brand new artists to radio as well as huge artists like Coldplay, Paul McCartney, Dave Matthews, Nora Jones and Jack Johnson to name a few and last year was named Triple A Independent Promotion Executive of the Year as voted on by Radio and Record labels at R&R.

Musician Coaching:

How does it work for you when you’re working with an artist just starting out and want to bring them to radio?

MM:

We’re very careful in that we don’t pitch new artists to have us work them to radio. M:M Music is very well known in the industry and part of the reason for that is because we’re very careful about who we work. The last thing I ever want to be known as is someone who takes on any record.  It has to make sense.

Most of the independent artists who come to us at the beginning we can’t take to radio. There is no argument that gets a radio station to add Joe Shmoe – no matter how good his record is – over the new Death Cab for Cutie or Foo Fighters.  It doesn’t exist.  When a project comes to us wanting to hire us, our approach quite honestly is to first try and talk them out of hiring us.  We give them every reason to reconsider, every disclaimer with an un-edited lay of the land.

I’m not a saint – I want your money, of course I do, and I don’t want to send business across the street.  However, there is a bigger picture to be considered.  We’re not that company who says yes to everything, we’re very fortunate to be in a position where we can be selective with projects and that’s incredibly important to us because it gets personal.  So many of our friends are musicians and at one time or another, every artist I know has been on the receiving end of the “Screw You” stick in this industry.  It seems that everyone gets whacked……I will never be the one wielding that stick.

The conversations I have with these artists are, “Imagine you’re a program director and you get an average of 100 CD’s on your desk every week. What is going to make them add your song when they’ve got records on their desks from Warner Bros, Atlantic, Capital and Universal and here comes the new Pearl Jam, or David Gray or Colbie Caillat?  Record labels are in the business of putting records out. Your record, as fantastic as it might be, is not going to get the kind of attention you want.  If you were that PD would you add it to your playlist at this point? Be honest.”

If by the end of the phone call, if they still want to go to radio and we as a company agree we like the record, then we come on board.  We focus first on commercial stations in smaller less competitive markets who tend to be more open to newer acts.  We also put a major focus on non-commercial radio stations. Non-commercial (non-com) radio stations are pivotal for breaking artists that are not household names yet. By definition, non-com stations don’t play commercials, so there’s more real estate available on their playlists to take chances on newer acts, and their listeners expect it.

If we have caused them to reconsider radio as their first step, then we try and help them with their next move.  Radio is not always supposed to come first. There are exceptions to every rule, but usually radio is not supposed to come first. Go out and tour. Do you have a management team? If they really are just all by themselves, we try to direct them to people that we trust – people that deal with smaller artists and that sort of thing. And we put them in the right direction there, because they’ll come back to us; because we were honest with them and didn’t just take their money.

Some of the artists we’ve turned down and given that advice to have gone out and hired other indies who took their records on and have spent their entire budgets getting absolutely nowhere. They’ve actually called us back and said, “I wish I would’ve listened to you.” And I’ve said, “I wish you had too, because now you don’t have the money to hire me.”

With all the politicking, the bottom line is, good music is good music. Because we work so closely with these radio stations and help them with everything from assisting them in booking their shows, helping out with giveaways, artist on airs, charity events etc., and because they know we’re not a promotion company that takes every record that comes our way, they do us the courtesy of listening to the records we ask them to. This is incredibly gratifying, and we’ve worked very hard to earn that reputation and gain their trust; they know that we’re just not pushing every piece of schlock on them because we’re getting paid to do so.

I guess the short answer to your question (God is it too late to give a short answer?) – we’re just very honest with the people we work with and paint a very realistic picture. If the artist chooses to go ahead with radio and we feel it’s a solid record, we’ll take it on, but only after we’ve spent time on the phone trying to talk them out of it.  But in the end, you’re responsible, you’re a grown up, we’ve given you every possible reason to view all your options and if you still want to go to radio, we’re your best shot at airplay.

Musician Coaching:

That’s very commendable. At what point would you advise a band that’s on the way up to actually go for radio?

MM:

It’s great when they already have a local or regional story, because for every band making it regionally there are 50 who are not.  If you’re making a dent locally then you’re doing something right.  I’ll ask for their story, what the audience is responding to, how many tickets are they selling, what size clubs are they playing etc.

Sales are still the yardstick by which we measure success. So many radio stations don’t do things like research; they can’t afford it. But they look at sales and say, “I’m the only radio station in town playing this band and they just sold 200 pieces this week.”

I’ll ask a band to give me at least one quote or one piece of valuable info that I can use with programmers because the worst music call I can do is, “Hey, here’s this band you’ve never heard of on a label you’ve never heard of … what do you think?” That’s a terrible music call. The artists, now more than ever, have a responsibility to provide the story. They need to create it and be out there working. They have to be able to come to me and say, “This is what I’ve got.”

Musician Coaching:

I’m less familiar with the triple A format, but I remember the days when WCPR in Biloxi, MS was playing a little unknown band called Three Doors Down and a hard rock station in Florida was playing “Pity for a Dime” by Creed and that launched their career. 

MM:

It does happen, but it’s certainly more rare than in the past.  Radio is still the main conduit for music and breaking new acts and they expect the artist to come with more than they ever have before because there are so many other options for listeners.  The competition is fierce with options like Satellite radio and the enumerable ways in which to get music from the internet.  Listeners now can easily create their own playlists for their cars, they can tune into the all 80’s channel if they want.   It’s certainly a lot different than when I was growing up balancing my tape recorder up against my hi-fi motioning wildly for my sisters to shut up so I could record my favorite song.  Music on demand makes programmers jobs much more challenging than ever before.  But sales speak loudly. So does press. And it significantly helps when both are there for radio to see.

Musician Coaching:

Do you think radio still has the impact it used to have?

MM:

Radio still breaks artists, they are still the gatekeeper.  There was a recent article in Billboard that used research from the Council for Research Excellence (CRE).  What it did was dispel a lot of the myths about how people listen to music. There’s the myth that people don’t listen to radio anymore; according to this study, broadcast radio has the broadest reach and command, the most listening time. Radio has 80% reach and an average of 120 minutes per day from listeners. There was a myth that young people don’t listen to the radio. The CRE found that 79% of listeners from 18-34 listen to broadcast radio and average 104 minutes per day. Radio’s daily reach for younger listeners was only slightly lower in 35-54. It was a talk about not just about radio but also about CD’s. The myth is, nobody listens to CD’s and cassettes anymore. CD’s and cassettes are second in reach behind broadcast radio and get an average of 72 minutes today from users.  History shows us that progress does not mean the death of the past.  Radio was not the end of newspaper, television was not the end of radio, the internet was not the end of anything.

For us, it’s just validating what we already knew, radio is absolutely the key. People listen to radio, and yes people have more choices than ever before on where they get their music.  That’s fine, because it’s challenged radio to rise to the occasion; and they have. Studies show that radio sells. Radio breaks. Where did Nora Jones break out of? Radio. Where did Jack Johnson break? Radio. Colbie Calliat was a combination; she had a huge Myspace following, but she didn’t become known national until radio. Radio is still the key to all of this.

Musician Coaching:

Have you had a story about anybody that was kind of DIY that got radio’s attention with the statistics they were able to capture online?

MM:

One of the most interesting stories to me is Regina Spektor. She is one of the hardest artist to work at radio. Yet Regina debuted in the Top Ten nationally in album sales in almost every market. She sells out venues like the Ryman Auditorium in Nashville, and it’s like pulling teeth to get radio to play her. They hear her sound as polarizing. Our job is to get it past their ears. Warner Bros conducted on-site interviews with fans coming into and coming out of Regina Spektor shows asking how they came to hear her and become fans.  Overwhelmingly they said through Pandora. So, there is a responsibility for radio to not let themselves get beaten…I love the passion that this format has, and that they take risks; sometimes it’s just more of a challenge to get them to take a chance on something even when it has a tremendous story behind it.  It can be frustrating but is also understandable. Like I said, it’s a lot more competitive out there and that comes with a whole load of caution that wasn’t there 10 or 15 years ago.

Musician Coaching:

When calling radio do you go directly to the MD (Music Director) and the PD (Program Director)?

MM:

Yes.

Musician Coaching:

Do you bring records to DJs or to the local show guy?

MM:

The local shows we work are mainly for the non-commercial radio stations. For the commercial radio stations, we go to the program directors and the music directors. For the non-commercial stations, the non-commercial person on my staff is Crystal Ann Lea, and she’s fantastic. She knows these non-com guys in and out and she works the specialty programs.  For example with a station like KCRW, in Los Angeles, she’ll work music directly to the folks at “Morning Becomes Ecclectic”.   So important is non-com to us that we’re the only independent promotion company with a dedicated, non-commercial radio person.  That’s all she calls. You cannot be as effective on a music call if you’re pressed for time because you have too many stations to call.   If we tried to cover two formats – commercial AAA and non-commercial AAA – there wouldn’t be enough hours in the day.  It’s our obligation to give the records we’re on the best chance, and dividing up the stations and formats allows us to take the time to speak in depth with radio rather than rushing through a list and getting to the next call.

Musician Coaching:

Is there a palpable effect at these smaller non-commercial radio stations on a career?

MM:

Absolutely.  These non-commercial radio stations take chances because they are publicly owned. They don’t have corporate owners breathing down their necks; they are responsible to their communities. The public radio listener is a very specific type of music lover. They support their radio stations and take pride in them. And radio takes pride in bringing them new stuff. They’re not going to settle for just some play list they can hear anywhere.

With other formats, if you drive across the country listening to just that format, you’re going to hear the same songs and all the stations will sound very very similar.   That’s works for them, and that’s fine. But the wonderful thing about Triple A, commercial and non-com, is that if you cross the country you will hear no two stations that sound alike.  Listen to KPRI in San Diego, and then listen to KTCZ in Minneapolis. Listen to WRLT in Nashville and WCOO in Charleston.  Listen to WFUV in New York and KINK in Portland.  You’d never believe they were in the same format.  BDS and Mediabase both produce and print charts for Triple A, same as they do all the other formats.  But the difference is ours is the only chart where you’re going to see Train, Kings of Leon and the Foo Fighters alongside artists like Bob Schneider, Maia Sharp, Rodrigo y Gabriela and NeedtoBreathe.  It’s eclectic as hell and it should be – so are people’s musical tastes.

Musician Coaching:

Do you think that’s why AAA has expanded? Is it beyond the viability of the older music audience? Do you think it’s because they’re able to be so flexible with what they play?

MM:

I think the format has done so well over the past few years because the program directors recognized the potential for success in the Triple A format and embraced their role as tastemakers. They knew that if you want to expose new music, you also have to play the hits and they balance that beautifully.  They have had to prove their success, they did and the labels paid attention. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. You treat something as important, and all of a sudden it becomes important.

Musician Coaching:

It’s a different world. I could get Nic Harcourt (Now at KCRW) on the phone as an intern at Atlantic, because nobody cared about WDST. It was a very different world.

MM:

It is a different world, because when Atlantic calls us or Warner Bros calls us, and we’re going over targets, they are talking to us not just about the major markets but they absolutely do care about the smaller markets as well. Maybe not so much on the huge acts, but certainly on the ones we are breaking. We took Serena Ryder’s first single and it was Top Ten. We took Eric Hutchinson’s first single, #1; his second one was Top Five. This is done in AAA.  AAA is also a building block to Hot AC. Hot AC sells more records than AAA overall and Hot AC has a bigger reach, but do you know where they find many of their hits?  Triple A.

Musician Coaching:

That could be said about your non-com vs. com radio stations, No?

MM:

Yes. We have a responsibility to not waste program directors’ time. I think one of the least important things a program director and music director have to do during the week is deal with music calls. It’s incredibly important to us, because that’s what we’re doing. But they are dealing with less staff and are running a company. They don’t have time to take five calls about a record that they’re never going to play.  We have to make our calls count so we listen to our stations online constantly, look at their playlists, read Soundscan so we can see what the top ten albums are in their respective markets.  What’s gone up or down etc.  You have to be educated before you get these guys on the phone; otherwise they’re not going to take your call. You can’t just randomly say, “What do you think of this?” These program directors have a huge responsibility, and we have to respect that and not waste their time.

Musician Coaching:

Do you have any advice for somebody that is selecting an indie to work their record?

MM:

Just be very aware and know about any company you’re calling to work your record.  There are a lot of people out there who need business in this economy so it’s very tough. Don’t listen to just what the person is saying on the phone. Hear what they have to say, but then you need to call around. You need to ask your friends and do your research. It is your responsibility. It’s incredibly important to know who you’re hiring. Look at their website and what they do, and look through the fluff. Look for the person that’s going to say, “No” to you. Look for the person that is going to be honest with you.

Musician Coaching:

On a very small level, before somebody’s ready to go to someone like you for a national campaign, what’s some advice on approaching local radio?

MM:

Don’t just call and say, “Hey, we’re in your backyard.” So are 30 other bands.  Approach it as, “I would be a value on your playlist because” and then insert your reason. It has to be more than just, “I grew up listening to you.”  That’s nice, but that doesn’t help the radio station. This is a business. Give them ammunition and a reason to play you. Offer to play a free show for them.  In your approach, be very respectful. Don’t just say, “I’m local.” Say, “This is where we play, this is the number of tickets we sell” and ask if there is local programming. Offer to do a free show for them to get them interested right away.  And don’t be a pest.  It is not their job to play your music.  It is your job to convince them it’s in their best interest to play your music.  Or hire us to do it for you!

————-

John Wozniak, has worn many hats during his fifteen years in the music industry: As Singer/Songwriter; Record Producer; Owner of Mushroom Studios (Vancouver, BC), A&R Rep (Capitol/EMI), but he’s probably best known as the creative force behind Marcy Playground; the band that brought you the 1997 hit “Sex and Candy.”  Almost 12 years later, John continues to write and release albums with the band, and I was able to catch up with him by phone last week, as Marcy Playground’s “Leaving Wonderland 2009/10” tour found their bus rolling into Houston Texas.

This is part II of the interview with John You can find Part 1 here.  We were discussing what it was like for John when they had their first hit twelve years ago and I was just about to get more current…

Musician Coaching:  How has touring changed? What kind of tools are you using?

JW:

People think… even if you’re not selling records you can tour.  Well, it’s expensive to tour.  It’s not free, and it’s not cheap.  First of all, you need a booking agent.  A booking agent has to be good.  They have be able to get you good shows that offer high enough guarantees to pay your expenses.  They also have to know which promoters are legit, and which promoters are crooks.  Otherwise you could end up in Europe, playing your heart out and never get paid.   Don’t believe me?  Watch the recent documentary on the band ANVIL.  You also need a tour manager.  Somebody has to advance the shows with the promoters, organize the travel plans, and settle at the end of every night.  If it’s going to be your bass player, he’d better be really good, and have the patience for it, or he won’t be your bass player for very long.  So if you’re going to have a booking agent and a tour manager, portions of the money you’ll be making on the road are obviously going to be going to them. Not only that, but you have to have a bus or a van with a trailer for your equipment, money for gas, money to eat. You might have to have a hotel room or two. If you can crash at people’s houses on their couch, good for you, most people can’t.  So, the point is, touring is not cheap, and it is definitely not free.  You have to find ways to pay for your tour other than guarantees.  Sometimes there may not be a guarantee. The promoter might want to do a deal where you get a portion of the door receipts.  Well, if nobody shows up that night, because the promoter didn’t feel like spending any money to promote the show, you’re going to be shit out of luck and out of money really quickly.  Selling T-shirts is a good way to supplement tour income, as long as people buy them.  But why would anyone buy a t-shirt from an unknown band?  Who goes to a bar and buys a T-shirt from an unknown band?  Not many people.  I haven’t bought any.  My experience has been that people only buy T-shirts from bands they know.  What they will buy, however, is a CD.  So, selling CD’s on tour is critical.  If nothing else, you have to get your music out there.  You should also be gathering names for your mailing list.  It’s easy to set up a table with cards on it that people can fill out.  If you have somebody’s email address, Facebook page, MySpace page, etc… you can keep them informed about what you’re doing.

So starting out, touring is not a good way to make money, or to get heard.  If nobody knows who you are, there’s no impetus for them to come out and hear you play.  So you almost have to get your music out for free on the Internet just so that people care.  You can’t be selling a record if nobody has any idea who you are, and no idea of what they’re getting themselves into. It’s like trying to pick a prize behind a curtain where you have no idea what it is.  Imagine trying to pay for that prize behind the curtain.  Nobody’s gonna do that!

MusicianCoaching:

And you’re assuming the odds are it’s a prize. With what I know about music, most of it I don’t like.

JW:

Actually, I’m with you.  I’m assuming it’s not a prize.

I think the way to do it in this day and age, if you’re going to do it at all, is to network.  You have to get into a market, a place, a city where there’s a music scene and where people’s attention is focused on that music scene.  Doing it from Kansas City, MO isn’t going to happen for you… just like doing it from Olympia WA wasn’t going to happen for me.  You would be the luckiest band in the world if you make it out of some city in the Midwest that is not Chicago or Minneapolis.  It’s almost impossible to do it.  So move to Minneapolis, or Chicago, or New York, or LA.  Move to a music hub.  Seattle’s a poor place to do it at this point I believe.  People are looking at Portland a bit these days, because there is a good music scene there.  Atlanta, Nashville — there are a couple places where it makes sense.  But you need to go to one of those places.  Get involved in the music scene there, go see bands, introduce yourself to other musicians you like and find a community that accepts you.  In that community, you can support each other. There’s always that guy with a ProTools rig in his garage with some killer gear that he spent his life collecting, that would be willing to record you for a small piece of the back end (2 or 3 points)… or just for fun.  If you get a deal out of the demo he makes, you give him an override on the record.

One thing I want to be really clear on is, you have to be very careful about who you shack up with in business deals in the beginning.  There are a lot of bottom-feeders out there.  If you’re a young local artist that starts to show some real talent and potential in your area, you will find that there is no shortage of unscrupulous people who call themselves “Managers”, or call themselves “Producers.”  Pond scum like that will likely weasel up to you and try to take a piece of your future.  You need to be cautious and avoid those people.  Do your research. Get books out of the library, or go to your local book store.  Amazon is a really amazing place for buying used books for a dollar.  There’s no lack of information out there on the business of music.  Once you have that side of things figured out, and you understand the difference between a mechanical royalty and an artist royalty, you can better make decisions about your career.  And then, when someone offers you a deal, you’ll be able to tell if that person is for real… or a weasel.

Another thing young bands have to be aware of these days is getting stuck in a “dead deal.”  Let’s say you sign your five-album deal, two firm plus three options, and a month later that company no longer exists, you’re going to be kicking yourself while your contract is in probate for the next six months to two years, wondering why you didn’t research the company beforehand.  This happens a lot.  Bands get stuck on labels that don’t exist anymore.  Unfortunately, somebody still owns the assets of that dead label, which includes the exclusive rights to your band’s recordings.  In this day and age, that scenario plays out more and more.  Labels are being sucked into other labels, others are being closed.  It’s very common.  Google is an amazing resource, and you can find out a lot about what’s happening at certain record labels, or their parent companies, just by Googling news and information on them.  I personally think it’s worth doing a little Google research before doing business with anyone.

MusicianCoaching:

What tools are you using for Marcy Playground that have come around recently?

JW:

The most important thing we’ve discovered is the same thing everyone else has discovered. Social networking sites work. You can really start to develop a fan base through social networking:  Myspace; Facebook; YouTube. YouTube is probably the most under-utilized of them all.  As much as people like to listen to music, they’d rather see a video and music at the same time.  On your website, you can always take the YouTube code and embed videos into your webpage … or your Myspace or Facebook pages. You should get yourself one of those $120 Flip video cameras and shoot yourself playing songs, or getting out there and goofing off to your music. You should develop a profile on YouTube where you can have a big presence. You can make them funny too, so they’ll have a better chance of becoming viral. The band “OK Go” put up that famous video of them dancing on treadmills, and all of a sudden, they have millions of hits for a video that they shot themselves.  They came up with a really good idea… four guys dancing on treadmills.  Next thing you know, the MTV Video Music Awards roll around and there’s OK Go doing the treadmill dance, onstage.  Who had heard of OK Go before that?  Not many people.  Now that video has around 49 Million hits.

Musician Coaching:

What would you do differently having lived through this experience as a new artist?

JW:

Nowadays I’d network like crazy, but still keep my core organization small and smart. That’s my philosophy on it.  I think the fewer personalities involved in a creative endeavor, and the smarter they are, the better.  There are a few large organizations in management that do very well for their clients, but sometimes all you need is one really aggressive, intelligent, self-motivated individual out there.  That’s what we had in Chris Blake at the time when “Sex and Candy” broke.  He was just one guy with a few key clients–  Toad the Wet Sprocket, The Odds, and Marcy Playground – but he was super motivated and really smart, and we were able to make a lot of good decisions, and reap the rewards of his wisdom whenever he was around.

Aside from that, I would move to a big city, go out every night and see live local music, get involved with other musicians and collaborate a lot, write with other songwriters, be as social of an animal as I could possibly be, and meet everybody in that scene.  I’d probably try to avoid the “open-mic night” crowd, since my experience has been that that tends to be a pretty “dead-end” scene – Find real musicians, including a real drummer, and get a real gig!  –  I would work on my song craft and make as many recordings as humanly possible, shooting for the best sounding thing I could possibly get.  I’d bang down the door of the local radio station and get them to spin it on one of their “Featured Local Artist” segments.  Most big stations have a segment in their programing like that, where they match your song up against another local band’s.  I’ve seen those contests work for artists.  In fact I recorded a band in Vancouver called Stabilo that had won one of those.  Their demo for a song called “Everybody” was getting some spins on 99.3 CFOX in Vancouver.  I owned a major recording studio there for over 7 years, called Mushroom Studios, so I was in town on business when I heard their song come on the radio in my car.  I was surprised that it was a local band because it sounded like a hit to me.  Shortly thereafter I went to see them play at a club on Granville Street called The Royal.  There were 10 people in the audience, but the band was great.  So I went up to them afterwards, introduced myself, and invited them to come to the studio the next day to discuss their career plans.  We all hit it off, so I did a few recordings with the guys, pitched them to some labels, and did my part to help them become a national act in Canada.  They’ve gone on to do quite well.  If they hadn’t entered that CFOX local contest… who knows what would have happened.  That sort of local success becomes incredibly valuable, because it gives you something tangible you can build upon and, hopefully, translate into something bigger.  If you’re in an urban market, and your song is being played for millions of people, so much the better.

I’d get a band together and play local shows without spreading ourselves too thin.  Instead of hitting the road and wasting a lot of time and money touring… I’d try to get a residency at one of the local bars or clubs in town, and play there every Tuesday or Thursday night and start to develop a following.  If I knew of a bar that had one slow night a week… I’d ask the owner if they wouldn’t mind having my band play for free, and then I’d bring all my friends out.  I’d keep a mailing list and inform the people who signed up for it of all my news and events.  And, of course, I’d use the internet to socially network like crazy.

You just have to get involved, meet people, have new experiences and learn.  Make yourself an expert on everything and be social.   Don’t sit in your parents’ basement smoking pot, wondering when the A&R guy from Capitol is going to knock on your door and come down the stairs to listen to your brilliant music.  It’s not going to happen.

—–

Check out what John is up to on the Marcy Playground Website.

John Wozniak, has worn many hats during his fifteen years in the music industry: As Singer/Songwriter; Record Producer; Owner of Mushroom Studios (Vancouver, BC), A&R Rep (Capitol/EMI), but he’s probably best known as the creative force behind Marcy Playground; the band that brought you the 1997 hit “Sex and Candy.”  Almost 12 years later, John continues to write and release albums with the band, and I was able to catch up with him by phone last week, as Marcy Playground’s “Leaving Wonderland 2009/10” tour found their bus rolling into Houston Texas.

John was so prolific I had to split this interview into two parts.  Part two will be along in a day or two.

Musician Coaching:

You’re one of those artists who was playing locally and then wrote a big fat hit song and had national exposure.

JW:

That’s the really short version. The longer story is that, in 1995, the Executive V.P. of A&R at EMI Records in New York, a man named Don Rubin, listened to a copy of a solo album I  recorded in 1990 called “Zog Bogbean:  From The Marcy Playground.”

Musician Coaching:

Zogbog… what?

JW:

[laughs]  Zog Bogbean.  It was the name of a character from some short stories I wrote as a kid.  –  Anyway, he gave a few stacks of CDs, that included my album, to his summer intern while she was working for him and, before she left in September, he asked her if there was anything he’d missed, that she liked.  She said she’d been listening to Zog Bogbean all summer and really loved it.  So Don checked it out, and eventually got in touch with me out in Olympia Washington, where I was going to college.  After a few conversations about what my plans and aspirations were, I remember him saying to me, flat out “I absolutely love your music John but, being all the way out there, you’re in kind of an impossible place for us to work with you right now.  If you lived in New York, it would be a completely different story.”

Olympia had two labels at the time, both indie icons:  ‘Kill Rock Stars (KRS)’ and ‘K Records.’  Kill Rock Stars was all Riot Grrrl music, and K Records was too “indie cool” to be interested in my music.  So, shortly after my initial conversations with Don, I made the decision to  drop out of college and move to New York.  And that decision changed my life.

When I got to New York I didn’t call Don immediately.  I wanted to get all my ducks in a row first, and record some of my newer songs.  I wanted to hand him a great sounding demo, which I think is one of the keys when you’re starting out.

As much as people call this business of ours “The Music Industry”, it’s actually more accurately called “The Recording Industry.”  You really have to have a kick-ass sounding recording in order to get people’s attention in this business.  Labels know that your demo wasn’t recorded by Butch Vig or Jack Joseph Puig, but if it sounds like it was… Okay, now you’ve got somebody’s attention!  I mean, I saw you in your office, Rick, back when you were working at Elektra, with stacks of demos on your desk.  I know how it works.  There’s the “interest stack” which is a short stack of material you’ve already checked out, heard some cool stuff on, and want to give a second listen to.  You also have the “priority stack”, which comes from solicited sources like managers, lawyers, associates at the label, and your boss.  Then you have the, “Oh-my-God-I-can’t-believe-I-have-to-wade-through-this” stack of shit that comes in through the mail, totally unsolicited.  That stack usually takes up a small storage closet somewhere in the building, right?  Yeah, I know.

I did A&R at Capitol/EMI in Toronto for almost two years.  I was in charge of listening to every demo that came in to the building.  I was also put in charge of prioritizing which showcases our staff would attend during various music conferences.  And, I don’t mind telling you, having that experience from the other side of the desk really opened my eyes.  Given the volume of music that comes into a record label, it’s amazing that A&R people find anything to focus on.  Deciding if it’s worth it to go to a club and see a band usually comes down to either… the strength of their demo, or a buzz on the band.  Music conference like CMJ or SXSW, can be fruitful for labels, but exhausting to the ears.  With hundreds of bands to see at SXSW, watching A&R people scurrying around, trying to manage their time, attempting to squeeze in certain artists and find out where the buzz is, becomes like watching a movie about a madd scavenger hunt from the silent-film era, where all the people have badges, checklists, and a cell phone.  Most major label A&R people have absolutely no patience for “diamonds in the rough.”  If you’re a great songwriter but can’t sing, play, or perform… then send your demo to a publishing company, not a major label.  They don’t care.  An indie label might care, if you’re as talented as someone like Daniel Johnston… but the majors don’t.  Why?… because they don’t trade in great songwriters, they trade in good looking performers who make cool sounding recordings of marketable songs.  That’s their business.  They don’t actually care if your mom writes your songs, so long as they’re hits, and you look and sound cool playing them.

Musician Coaching:

How did you go about getting a great recording?

JW:

I got some musicians together and found a good recording studio on Long Island that we could go into for not much money and record a really great demo.  We visited a few studios around New York but, in the end, I settled on Sabella Studios. They were the only one that actually had a hit record on the wall.  It was Public Enemy’s “It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back,” which, if you study your music history, you know how significant of an album that was.  The owner, Jim Sabella, who is just a really wonderful human being, gave me a copy of their studio CD sampler to take home.  Everything on that sampler sounded like music I would listen to.  They had the most professional sound.

The other reason I liked that studio is because it’s actually in the basement of a house out in Roslyn.  That’s not to say it’s a home-studio, ’cause it’s really not.  It’s a commercial studio, it’s just small and intimate.  The acoustics were designed in the early 80s by the guy who designed John Lennon’s studio.  Jim has a vintage Neve console, tube mics, and an incredible collection of outboard equipment.

We spent a week in there and recorded ten songs live off the floor. I overdubbed some guitars and vocals, and we took the last two days to mix it all down. I was pretty happy with the results, and so the next step was to get in touch with Don Rubin again, let him know I was living in town, and send him the new demos.  So that’s what I did.  About a week or two after sending him the CD Don called me… and I could tell he was excited.  He was like “John, we absolutely love this, we’re flipping out.”  Apparently it took him that week to get back to me because he’d been waiting to play it for Davitt Sigerson (the president of the label at the time) and Brian Koppelman (the head of A&R).

Since we didn’t have any shows booked, the three of them asked if they could come over to the house where we rehearsed.  At the time, I was on guitar; Jared Kotler… a somewhat-annoying friend of mine from high-school was playing drums, and our buddy Kurt Rosenwinkel was on bass.  Some of your readers might know who Kurt Rosenwinkel is.  These days, Kurt is considered by many to be one of the world’s most preeminent jazz guitar players and composers.  His critically acclaimed albums on Verve and Blue Note have led him to tour the world, headlining all the big jazz festivals.  But 14 years ago, Kurt was just a good friend that Jared and I had from Philly, who dug my music and enjoyed sitting in on bass from time to time.  He also introduced me to the two people who would become Marcy Playground with me, bassist Dylan Keefe, and drummer Dan Rieser.

So, that night, when Don brought Davitt and Brian to see us, we only played five or six songs before they stopped us in order to talk.  I remember at one point, after talking for a while, Davitt just folded his arms and said, “Alright so, I think we all agree… let’s make records.”  And that was it.

EMI had a pretty dominant roster in the 80′s with David Bowie, The J Geils Band, Kim Carnes, Corey Hart, Kate Bush, Billy Idol, Queensryche, Tina Turner, and Pet Shop Boys.  But by 1995 Alternative and Grunge had basically knocked all of those artists off of the MTV playlist, and the label realized, probably too late, the value of developing new talent.  So we got lucky, in the sense that, I was being scouted by Don during this very brief window of opportunity in the ’90′s, when EMI was actively signing unknown artists.  Besides us, their development roster included Fun Lovin’ Criminals, Five for Fighting, Patti Rothberg, Little John, and Jeffrey Gaines.  Some went on to success, some didn’t.

Musician Coaching:

Did they change the record?

JW:

No, and I know that that’s very unusual.  I asked Davitt about going back into the studio to re-record everything, and his response was something to the effect of “Yeah, we just really feel like you guys have it here. We feel like this is the record, and it doesn’t really need anything else except for maybe a couple more to fill it up, since there’s only ten.” So that’s what EMI released, my demos from Sabella.

It took a while to choose a lawyer and have him negotiate the deal with EMI so, by the time I finally went back to Sabella to finish off the album, we had settled on “Marcy Playground” as the band-name, and I also finally had a real line-up, with Dylan Keefe on bass, and Dan Rieser on drums.  The three of us spent a week at Sabella and finished the album off with a couple more songs. So, when all was said and done, our debut record, the one with “Sex and Candy” on it, took no more than two weeks to record and mix.

Actually, here’s a funny story about “Sex and Candy.” I’d written it in 1992 on a spring break home from college. It was now ’95-96, and I felt like it was a bit “over” for me.  I’d been singing it for 3 or 4 years, and didn’t think it fit with the newer material on the record.  At one point I was thinking about pulling it from the CD.  Oh man, I remember Ken Gioia, who was our engineer at Sabella – and now works for Digidesign  – heard me say that, and immediately jumped up and down, and was like “No way man, you’re nuts, that’s my favorite song!”  He got pretty animated about it, so I figured I should probably leave it on.  And, of course, it went on to be the monster that it was.  So… thanks Kenny!  Just goes to show, sometimes we’re not the best judge of our own material…

That’s how we got signed, the sub-context of which is that there’s no formula for how to get signed. And by the way, even if you’re lucky enough to get signed by a major, like we were, there’s still a lot of work you need to do before you can even begin to scratch the surface of success.  Getting signed is the beginning of your journey, not the end.  It’s like, “Welcome to OZ!  You made it, good for you!  Here, take these keys, and that 15 passenger van, and hit those yellow bricks over there, and someday you might actually reach the Emerald City… but probably not.  Have a nice day!”   So that’s what we did for about a year.  And then the unthinkable happened;  EMI (UK) restructured their North American operations and closed EMI Records in New York in the summer of 1997.  We were on tour in California, about to play a show in Sacramento, and we got a call from our manager that we had no label, no tour support, and no way to pay for gas home.

When they shut down the label we thought, “Okay, that’s it, we missed our shot.  How will we ever pick up these pieces?” The only real success we’d had on EMI came from opening for Toad The Wet Sprocket on their “fan appreciation tour” in the Spring of ’97. We’d only had one radio station in Fargo add “Sex and Candy” into rotation.  They loved the track, and so did their listeners. They were doing really well with it but, for whatever reason, the label was unable to convert that yardage into points – so that’s where we were.  We were done for.  Stuck in Sacramento.  Or, that’s what we thought.  Because, as luck would have it, about the same time EMI was closing, Chris Muckley, the music director at 91X in San Diego had begun spinning “Sex and Candy” on his show, and was getting a huge response from listeners that shocked even him.  Within the first week it was Top Five Phones – top five most requested song at the station – and within two weeks it was the number one most requested song on 91X.  And this is a big station.  91X has a listening audience that goes all the way from San Diego to Los Angeles, reaching tens of millions of people.  At the time Capitol Records (LA), and Virgin Records (NY) were each deciding which EMI’s contracts they were going to pick up, which they had the option to do.  In our case, due to the success 91X was having with Sex and Candy, that August in 1997, we were moved over to Capitol Records, where the machine went into total overdrive on our album.  So, we kept touring, and picking up stations, and by the time the charts locked out in December for the holidays, “Sex and Candy” was the #1 song in the country on Billboard’s Modern Rock chart.  And it stayed there at #1 for 15 consecutive weeks.

Musician Coaching:

Clearly that’s a story that’s for the most part from the bygone era. I can’t think of many songs for modern rock kind of bands that have done that. What has your experience been like subsequently, 12 years later? How have things changed?

JW:

Everything’s changed, dramatically.  Let me address the bygone era aspect of it, because I couldn’t agree more.  It’s never coming back.  When you’re talking about broadcasting, you’re talking about an industry that suffered irreparable change at the hands of Bill Clinton, when he signed the Telecommunications Reform Act into law in 1996.  That “reform” gave rise to companies like Clear Channel having the ability to come in and purchase virtually all of the nation’s large independent radio stations.  The new law was supposed to create competition, instead it handed a near monopoly to Clear Channel.  Prior to being taken over, stations could make a lot of choices on their own, but now their programming is tightly controlled by a corporate few.  In some respects it’s been good, since Clear Channel has basically single-handedly wiped out something that has been a problem since the beginning of broadcast radio, which is the Mafioso-style control of radio programming by what are known as Indie Radio Promoters, or “Indies.”  That’s a whole nuther story that I won’t go into right now.  Suffice to say, Clear Channel has gotten rid of a lot of the indie promotion people.  Yet, in doing so, they have replaced the indie as the gatekeeper in getting your songs on radio.

I think that’s why AAA (Adult Album Alternative or “Triple A” Radio) has exploded over the last ten years. AAA stations are the stations that broke Dave Matthews, Ben Harper and Jack Johnson.  It’s the only format in radio that is currently growing.  They have more flexibility in what they play; because they’re independent.  Some are commercial stations, but many are non-commercial “listener-supported” public radio stations.

So the bygone era for commercial radio is never really going to come back.  But there is a new era dawning for AAA Radio that involves the collective power of SIRIUS-XM satellite radio, Internet streaming radio, small independently owned commercial stations and, in particular, listener supported public radio. WXPN in Philadelphia at the University of Pennsylvania is a great example of the power of public radio.  I think XPN, at this point, is probably the largest AAA station in the country.  They rival some of the largest Clear Channel stations, serving millions of listeners.  If they decide to break a record, they can.  It’s strictly up to them.  So, you know, you can have a hit, it just might happen in a weird way.  If you look at the history of AAA Radio, you’ll see a lot of hits that happened in weird ways. “1234” by Feist is an example.  It didn’t happen at commercial radio.  It happened because her video was featured in a TV Ad for the iPod nano, at which point Triple-A picked up the song and broke it to their audience of millions.  All of a sudden Feist has a top 10 hit in the US and is being booked on shows like Letterman and Saturday Night Live.

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Part II of my interview with John can be read here.  Or you can check out the  Marcy Playground Homepage