Andy Gesner and Rob Fitzgerald are the two principals in the music video promotion company Hip Video Promo.  Andy was a musician who had been in and out of rock bands, created the Artists Amplification community and after doing similar video promotion work with other companies founded Hip Video Promo in 2001.  Rob came on board in 2006.  Hip video promo gets music videos played on music television shows across the country.  Hip works both for major label artists and independents.

Musician Coaching:

So give me a basic overview of your company and what you guys do.

RF:

Well, I deal a lot with the clients themselves in terms of getting all the assets together that we need to get out the door, like the masters and making sure everything is closed captioned, and that we have the proper photographs and bio information, one sheets prepared etc.  That in and of itself can be a hassle to people not familiar with the video.

Musician Coaching:

Mass mailing in multiple video formats has to be a nightmare for someone that doesn’t know the difference.

RF:

Exactly. And, well, it’s also really that technology has really changed the game a lot too. One of the things we have to keep up with is technology, because now we’re working a lot more with digital assets; things aren’t just coming in on beta tapes. There’s a lot of back and forth about how are we going to get the master delivered, how are we going to do this, get it dubbed properly, etc., etc. On that end, that’s a lot of what I do. And then we have another girl whose job is to make sure that the programmers are telling us what they’re doing with our videos. As a client, you certainly want to make sure that we’re sending the video out, but we need to be able to tell the clients who’s playing it. And if they’re not playing it, we need to know either why not or when they’re playing it. The thing with radio is, you have that centralized, universal chart that everyone reports to, whether it be CMJ, etc. You don’t really have that with video anymore. So it’s really up to the promoters to keep up with the individual programmers.

Musician Coaching:

Doesn’t Neilsen or someone one track this anymore? You have to figure out how many spins there are via word of mouth?

RF:

No. There’s no tracking service. There used to be the CVC Report, which did that. But that went under probably four or five years ago. Since then it’s really been up to the individual promoter to keep in touch with the programmers. With that being said, a lot of programmers we work with are very good at sending out their weekly tracking or their monthly or bi-monthly tracking. But there is definitely a certain element of being the heavy hand had that says, “We’re not going to be spending our clients’ money to make these dubs and send them to you if you’re not telling us what you’re using. We need to, aside from supply content to them, give information back to our clients. If we can’t do that, we can’t send you the video.”  Another member of our team is in charge of all the programmer intake and keeping track of address changes, what shows come on the air, what shows go off the air and also getting all the tracking into reports. And then we have a few other people on staff who prepare reports and ascertain all the playlists and get everything ready to go back to the client.

Musician Coaching:

I noticed you mention you’re including a bio in the package. Is this similar to radio promotion in that all these programmers are remarkably overwhelmed, and you really need to have some kind of story that’s interesting, in other words the biographical information for your artists and the product itself are going to do a lot of the sales work for you?

RF:

I think with any kind of promotion, one of the first questions a promoter is going to ask is, “What’s the story? What’s going on with this band?” So, yes, that’s a big part of it. We want to give them every reason, aside from, “Here’s a great video,” “Here’s what else is going on with this band. They’re doing really well with radio, they’re getting great press, they’re touring with so and so.” We also want to get them all that information. As far as them being overwhelmed, for some of them it is. What it is a lot – we were talking about technology before – technology has made it a much more affordable venture to make a music video. With digital and everything, you don’t need a film camera and you don’t need all this stuff to make a video. You can really edit it and shoot it. It doesn’t mean it’s going to be any good necessarily, but technology has made many more people of the opinion that they are music video directors.

Musician Coaching:

I have seen some videos that cost next to nothing that were better than some million dollar videos…

RF:

The thing we love, and one of the things we tell a lot of clients is, you don’t have to spend a lot of money to make a music video, but you have to have a good idea. That’s what kind of separates the men from the boys in music video world. No, you don’t have to spend a lot of money; but a lot of people don’t spend a lot of money and they’re trying to make their video look like they spent a lot of money. A good idea, a good concept, a good execution will embrace the fact that there wasn’t a lot of money spent on it. They’re not trying to make it look like they spent a lot of money on it; they’re trying to make it look like they have a cool concept. So, absolutely, you don’t have to spend a lot of money, but because you don’t, a lot of people that don’t have a good vision or the talent to make a good-looking video are still making videos. With the rise of something like YouTube, video has become a much more important component, whereas maybe six or seven years ago, people were saying, “Oh, MTV’s not playing as many videos. The video format is a dying breed.” Then all of a sudden you get your whole viral element, and video shoots back to the top of being a big priority for bands.

Musician Coaching:

Before we jump into digital, I notice that you guys are sending out a lot of physical different formats, but you’re actually sending something you can hold – a DVD or the various formats – to programmers across the board for terrestrial video outlets. Let’s say and artist made a video and they are looking to use this piece of their marketing toolkit to get them somewhere. Are there a lot of options for people like that to get test spins on different regional or niche video outlets offline?

AG:

I’ll take this one. I would have to say that going back to your question about bios and about presentation, we go to great lengths to present each artist in a way that is unlike a lot of other promotions companies where they might just take the band’s bio and maybe rehash it a little. For us it’s almost as if we’re the band’s team of lawyers and we’re going into the courtroom of indie rock music video opinion. We really have to give these people an intriguing, compelling reason to give these artists – of which many are very independent – programming consideration. What we’ve come to find is that whether it’s a bad like Spoon or Moby or the Gaslight Anthem, that you know are going to grab people’s attention because they are already a known quantity, we have hundreds of success stories of bands that were just flying under the radar but because the video was so incredibly outstanding, it more or less became the anchor of their marketing campaign moving forward.

These are the kinds of success stories that lead to tons of repeat business for us, because radio has really locked the indies out. Press is so expensive that even if you plunk down $5,000 or $8,000, who’s to say that anyone is going to actually write about you and write favorably? A compelling video and a video that really has an impact on viewers is going to definitely help an artist, especially independently, to really get to that next level so when they go out for the next record or the third record, they’re going to be in a situation where they’re a known quantity. There are so many stories like that where people are coming back because they got so much great feedback on the video that they realized, “Hey, people want to see it, they want to hear it.” The attention span of the normal American these days has become so small that they really want a full story, whether it be visual or audio or print so that they can make an informed decision.

RF:

One thing I’d add is that a lot of the programmers we service, on the terrestrial level, or even really on any level, have that independent mentality where they’re going to get the name bands, and obviously those are going to get on there because they’re established and well known but a lot of these guys are just looking for something they like.

Musician Coaching:

I guess my question is are there are still traditional terrestrial video outlets where a independent artist can get spun?

RF:

Yeah. Absolutely.

Musician Coaching:

Again, most people say, “Well, I want this on MTV,” but they don’t know. Fuse you get a little bit of a better shot. If you’re a gay artist, there’s Logo. If you’re a hard rock artist, I’m sure there are outlets like that. There’s Manhattan Neighborhood Network if you want to go really, really small. It’s just good to know that those are out there. Here’s a good question. Where should every artist, whether they can afford your services or not, be online? Is it going to YouTube or TubeMogul to kick it out to the major players? What would you say to someone that has no budget or blew their entire budget on making the video and now wants to get that video exposed?

RF:

The same thing I would say to a band that wants to do anything and doesn’t have the budget – do as much as you possibly can yourself. I’m sure you see it with A&R and stuff. The bands that get the furthest and accomplish the most are the ones that will never let anyone work harder for them than they will.

Musician Coaching:

I guess I meant specifically. Are there outlets where everyone should be? Who are the usual suspects?

RF:

Stuff like YouTube and a lot of those sites where you can upload it yourself and get it on there, there are tones of sties of that nature, whether it be YouTube, Yahoo, AOL etc. On our end, we don’t dive head-first into all the digital realms because that gets into a whole new world with viral marketing teams, and a lot of times when we get into a project with teams, we kind of overlap. They have someone that is more specific to the blogs and everything. We do work with places like AOL, Yahoo.

Musician Coaching:

Those services do have a programming staff is my understanding.

RF:

Right. And we work with sites like that where we feel that we can get them the video, and then we can also do more above and beyond just getting it on their site.

Musician Coaching:

And that’s a good question. Obviously relationships are always necessary, but are relationships the difference between getting spins on serious sites like that vs. maybe getting tested once?

RF:

I think first and foremost your product is the biggest thing. That’s the difference, which we try to stress a lot to bands: “Make sure you have something that you’re totally confident in.”

Musician Coaching:

I didn’t mean to make that sound so black and white. I guess, putting aside talent, and somebody who wrote a single as obvious as say Gnarls Barkley’s “Crazy,” are relationships essential for getting regular rotation for something on those outlets in most cases?

RF:

I think in a lot of situations, it’s a huge benefit, because the guy who is giving your video to them can pick up the phone and get that guy on the phone and have a conversation about that, then your video has just gone to the top of that pile. He now has your video specifically written down on his to-do list for the day instead of it just blindly coming in and sitting in a pile of the other 50-some videos they got in that week.

AG:

One of the toughest parts of my job is, over nine years we’ve had to tell many, many potential clients, “My staff and I have watched your video. The song is good, the video is good, but we don’t feel comfortable moving forward with you.” Basically, I’m trying to say in the best possible way that, “You know what potential client? Don’t lead off with this video.” A lot of times they will say, “So you don’t think the video is that good?” I never tell them that the video isn’t that good. I say, “Look, in this world, you never get a second chance to make a first impression. And this video might not be the first impression. You might want to go back to the drawing board.” And sure enough in numerous instances we’ve had bands come back nine months or 14 months later and are really appreciative of us and say, “You saved us from ourselves. You didn’t just take our money.” I don’t want to take bands’ money if we don’t feel confident that the video is going to get them the exposure or the attention they deserve. With that being said, we’re selective on the videos that we promote to our programmers, but the programmer is always the first to say, “We appreciate that you guys always send us the best of the best.”

Musician Coaching:

It was the same for people who would pitch A&R executives – your reputation was everything. When somebody became known as a peddler of shit in the A&R community they couldn’t get a meeting or anybody on the phone.

AG:

You use that expression I use all the time here in the office. Nine years into this, and I still haven’t become a shit merchant. And there are a ton of them out there. Each year I travel the country and visit my programmers and I take them out to their favorite restaurant or we go out to their favorite night club, and I’ve done this tour every year. A month from now I’m going to start my eighth tour of the country visiting my programmers, and yes – the programmers love to be shown love. They’re the first ones to tell me, “Andy, when that Hip video package comes to us it always goes to the top of the pile because we know we’re going to get a ‘Place to Bury Strangers,’ we know we’re going to get ‘Smile, Smile,’ or we know we’re going to get the new Spoon video from you. Don’t you guys have the new Frightened Rabbit Coming up? I can’t wait to get that!” Of course, for a lot of these bands like Frightened Rabbit, when we first promoted them two years ago, nobody knew who the hell they were. The same thing happened with Grizzly Bear. The first time out with Grizzly Bear, it was “Grizzly who?” But when you come back a second time around, boy does it make your job a lot easier.

Musician Coaching:

Good to know.

RF:

Video is kind of like the weird, mysterious cousin in the promotion family. People don’t know how you do video. We definitely know there’s an element of uncertainty terms of what a video consists of.

Musician Coaching:

There’s a lot of this I certainly didn’t know.

AG:

Briefly, I wanted to mention that, whether it’s Jerry at JBTV in Chicago or Shirley at NY Noise in Manhattan or John Faulkner at Notes from the Underground in L.A., or Alternative Currents in Omaha, or Music Mix USA in Florida, these video shows have been around a long time and they really do have a rabid, loyal viewership. TV is a time-tested medium. People still want to sit in front of their TV and be fed it. Not everybody wants to go to the computer and search for it. With that being said, for  anyone that feels that terrestrial TV is going by the wayside, I beg to differ.

Musician Coaching:

Let me ask you this – of all the videos you get, is there a common mistake, either technically or quality wise or anything that you would have people avoid? You just mentioned your screening process is a bit intense. What are some mistakes you see from independent bands making videos? What are some things people should avoid when making a video.

RF:

Well, say they were going to send it to the local, regional channel the thing that a lot of people do – you know when you watch a video and you have your band name, the song title, the director and the label on the bottom left-hand corner? That’s called a Kyron.   That’s something that the programmer puts on and the channel puts on and the show puts on because a lot of times they have a custom-made thing. What we see a lot now is that the director will put it on themselves. So we get a video, and we can’t send a video as far up as an MTV or as low down as a local, regional show, because they want to put their own graphic on there. So if you send it out with s self made kyron (*** Note -no clue how to spell this but I’m sticking with my first attempt***) on there, nobody’s going to be able to touch it. That’s kind of a common thing. With urban videos, it’s a little more black and white, because more of the current trend in the hip hop world is to have the big, splashy graphic on top that says the band name and the song title. That’s okay, because that’s more a part of the video. That’s something that’s part of the video itself. But the white block letters in the bottom left-hand corner.

Musician Coaching:

The floating text in the first few seconds, yes.

RF:

A lot of times the programmer will get a video and they’ll like it, and they’ll say, “That’s great, but you need to send it to me without the kyron.” One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of programmers, if they do a regular show – a show that airs a couple times a week, maybe it’s an hour long – they want to be able to program a bunch of videos. Not that we ever want to compromise anybody’s musical or artistic integrity, but the longer the video is, the less of a chance you’re going to have at getting it programmed. Because if you send a video for a song that’s five-and-a-half minutes long, you might have a programmer say,  “Hey, I could get two videos in this span of time instead of this one video eating up five-and-a-half minutes of the programming.” Personally speaking, it seems too bad to me that there’s the mentality that every song or every single needs to be three-and-a-half minutes long because some of my favorite songs are four-and-one-half-minutes or five-minutes long, but again, I’m not making up the rules, I’m just going with the reality of what people are looking for and what gives the best chance of air play. And lastly, I’d say if you’re looking for television broadcast type airplay, don’t push your luck with potentially offensive material.  Even though the Internet has kind of desensitized people to what is acceptable and what is offensive and what is not, censors think differently. People like to push the envelope, and if you’re going viral with it, that’s great; but if you’re going to have bare breasts or gratuitous butt shots, a lot of people are not going to play it for that reason. And it’s not like I’m telling people what to do with their videos, but that is the feedback that comes back from censors.

Musician Coaching:

Suggestions for what not to do when trying to get your video aired are completely within the realm of the question. Andy, did you have something to add earlier?

AG:

We service over a dozen retail pools, better described as content providers. Whether it’s Club Com who gets the videos into fitness centers and gyms so that when you’re working out you can watch the cool new Spoon video, or if it’s Promo Only in Florida who provides their video reels to night clubs, night life locations, cruise ships, bowling alleys, or it’s DMX in Seattle, who hits all the major retailers in the malls you go to, or In-Store Sports Network who provide video content for Foot Locker and Foot Action …  they have to be cognizant of content, because they don’t want complaints coming back from customers saying, “Hey, I was in with my eleven-year old daughter, and that video had some salacious content.” Aside from the national outlets that will flag a video due to content, you’re also hurting yourself out there in content provider land, because you see videos everywhere you go. I go to my local oil change place, and they have videos playing in there. It’s all very much something bands should consider. If you want to get cute, like Rob says, or they want to get salacious, you’re going to be hurting your chances for exposure.

Musician Coaching:

Just one last question. Are there any parting words of advice for artists out there and their videos?

RF:

You never get a second chance to make a first impression, so if you’re going to send your video, make sure it’s something you’ve taken the time to be really proud of. That’s really the gist of it. You can understand that promotion and your team and your contacts can only go so far if you don’t have a good product to work with. Take the time to make it right.

Check out http://hipvideopromo.com for more info