Posts Tagged ‘building a fanbase’

I was able to ask my friend Howie Schnee the Co-Owner of Creative Entertainment Group and Co-Owner of Sullivan Hall and Sullivan Room in New York a few questions about what his job is like and what helps influence his decisions in booking bands into his clubs.  I have known Howie since the early 90s when Sullivan Hall was called the Lion’s Den.  He was in fact the first club owner to take a risk on a band I played with in college many years ago.

Howie has been responsible for building more acts on a local or regional level than any three people I know.  The Lion’s Den  (now Sullivan Hall) was one of the stepping stone clubs that most bands who wound up on Bonnaroo or  the H.O.R.D.E. tour played before becoming big regional or national acts.

Musician Coaching:

How has the process of band /artist selection changed at the clubs in the last 10-15 years both for established artists and for the audition nights or slow nights when you are trying out new local talent. (online vs offline, more or less competition for slots etc…)

Howie:

It’s changed significantly. The immediacy of the web is mind-boggling. Almost all bands post samples of their music online. The old way was for bands to make initial contact over the phone and follow up with a press kit. By the time we received that press kit, details of that initial conversation were fuzzy at best. Besides music being immediate, there are many clues online that give a good idea as to whether or not a band has their act together so to speak such as having a robust website. Also, whether or not there’s some buzz and awareness about them like having a lot of Myspace plays, Facebook friends, Twitter followers for example. I’ll occasionally do random searches to see if there’s any interesting press about the act.

Musician Coaching:

How do you prefer to be approached by an unknown artist trying to get a
show at the clubs you book? (referral, cold calling, how materials should be
presented and where i.e. Sonicbids, myspace etc)

Howie:

It’s really best for bands to include links for all of their sites they have EPKs on – MySpace, Sonicbids, Reverb Nation, etc. Just depending upon the buyer’s preference of site(s) they like to review bands on. A band should state the basics that talent buyers would like to know: where they’re from, what genre(s) they consider themselves to be in, when and where they’ve played the market before and how it went. If a band has friends, family or any roots to New York City that will insure a decent draw, that’s a good thing to mention. Also, anything noteworthy that may garner attention – album release show, TV or radio appearances, notable press, etc.

Musician Coaching:

For a new band with few or no references that you can call to get a feel
for their following – how is the best way to approach you and how often so
as to be heard but not to annoy the hell out of you?

Howie:

References aren’t necessarily important, but professionalism and a good attitude go a long way. The other day I booked an out-of-town people who drew only 20 people to a show, on a Wednesday. Their manager followed up with a great email of thanks, but also noting how he felt strongly if we gave them a chance on a weekend night, he knew they could do 50 people at minimum. Then he followed that up with something to the effect of ‘I understand if you’d like to keep us to a week night and we’ll work hard to get to a weekend night eventually.’ His non-demanding positive attitude implored me to give him a weekend show despite the smaller draw. It also helped that their music was really good.

Musician Coaching:

Describe the volume of submissions you get on a daily or weekly basis for
artist who want to play shows at Sullivan Hall and what percentage of those
actually get in the door to play?

Howie:

There are three of us that book the club so it’s hard to say exactly. I’d estimate we probably get around 20-25 submissions a day on average. Unless a band’s music or attitude is really terrible, we give most bands a shot. First time in though, it may be on a Monday or Tuesday.

Musician Coaching:

What traits in a band member or manager make you feel like this is
someone who is serious about their business and makes you want to help them
build their following (both for you and the club)

Howie:

I alluded to it earlier. Positive attitude, non-demanding, carrying themselves professionally, strong work ethic all go a long way with me. That hard work ethic is essential if a band wants to take it to the next level. Nothing should be beneath them. I love walking out of a show and seeing a musician handing out hand bills or CDs or MP3 cards promoting their band. If I see that, and its 30 degrees and snowing, no matter what they sound like, I’ll book that band.

Musician Coaching:

Describe some of the frustrations you have with they way musicians
approach you for a gig and things that people should avoid saying / doing.

Howie:

One of the most frustrating things is when you book an act, and discover afterwards they have multiple gigs lined up in town, and they’ve never bothered to mention it. I can understand a band wanting to get out there and play a lot (although I don’t feel that’s the right approach), but they should mention it during the booking process. I think acts should be more focused on the quality of shows they do versus quantity.  Acts should be thinking in a reciprocal manor – not just ‘what can I get out of this?’

Let’s say your band can draw 50 people on a week night in New York. Your draw may be predominantly friends and fans at that point. Which is fine. Almost all bands start with friends and family. If your band starts booking 2 or more times per month, you’ll start to have diminishing returns. Now we book you after you’ve played a number of shows in town in a short period of time, and we put you on a good night on a good show, and almost no one comes out. You’ve benefited from the exposure but have offered nothing in return. You’ve spoiled your relationship with us. Bands should be thinking in reciprocal terms. Not only ‘what can we get out of this?’ but ‘what can we do for the club, or promoter, or the other bands on the bill for that matter?’

——————-

Part two of my interview with Howie is available here.  You can also check out his management and marketing company Creative Entertainment Group.

Eric Pirritt is the Manager for the band STS9 and the VP of Live Nation Rocky Mountains.  Eric started his career in college promoting shows on the program counsel In New Hampshire and at the University of Denver and went on to work for various independent promoters and doing marketing for venues until becoming the VP of Live Nation and the manager for STS9.

I first heard of STS9 in an interview I did with Tom Silverman of Tommyboy who mentioned STS9 by name as one of the few independent artists who sold over 10,000 records in 2008.  Eric, being very on top of all things going on with his band emailed me the day after the article ran.

Music Consultant:

So just tell me briefly how you started working with STS9.

EP:

One of the first bands I ever really worked with as a promoter where I booked every show they played for a month in Colorado was STS9. About halfway through that relationship they were saying they were looking for new management and at a show I booked for them they said, “We’ve been talking about a new manager, and he’s standing right in front of us. Can you do what you’ve done for us in Colorado everywhere else?” And I said, “I’ll try.” That was five years ago.

Music Consultant:

How did you go about building this? Obviously, it’s been a long time coming- they are not an overnight success. But what did you do to grow these guys from a band in George who had pockets of fans in Colorado to a national touring act?

EP:

The band was from Georgia when they first started building in Colorado. The sound was just something that made a lot of sense to Colorado. Colorado’s a state where people move from all over and have all different tastes, and they were this completely unique act. I remember the first time I listened to their first album, and I’d never heard anything like it. It was just one of those things where I started telling everyone about the band, and they would ask, “Who do they sound like?” and I couldn’t figure out who they sounded like. And if I go back now and look at it, that’s it. That’s one of the main reasons why everyone loves them so much, because they didn’t come off as something where they sound like “so and so.” Everybody always seems to want to compare something now to something in the past to make them feel comfortable with a description. They’re one of the bands out there that everyone goes to when describing the new bands:  “This new band Lotus” or the “Bass Nectars” or “Pretty Lights” of the world, that are starting to come up. They came from our shell much like bands for many years would “sound like the Grateful Dead” or say, “They came out of the Grateful Dead scene.”

Music Consultant:

Your business with STS9 though is primarily the live show. You come out from a concert promotion background and you met them through live shows.  They are mostly an event-based product, right?

EP:

Absolutely. We’ve made a lot of steps to get more out there in the world of getting our music into movies.  They are in a documentary that just got accepted to some big film festivals.  But yes, we’ve made our money on the road, we’ve built our fan base on the road, we’ve built our community on the road from the record label that we own and all these acts that are coming up right now. But it’s primarily a touring thing and an experience live.

Music Consultant:

What was your first step? I know they’re in the jam circuit. Did you pair them with other bands? Where did you start?

EP:

For Colorado, the first time they played, they needed a Thursday night, and at the time Thursday nights were Ladies’ Night Hip Hop Night at a local venue in Boulder that I booked.  I loved the band so much, I said, “Let’s put you guys on Ladies Night,” and it was free to get in until 10.  I brought some extra lighting because I could kind of just sense the vibe. I had never met any of the guys in the band, and none of them knew who I was until that night.

We created this kind of event that night. We were turning people away at the door.  There is  a good combination in Colorado, but it boils down to the fact that they had a promoter who found his favorite band. They’re still my favorite band to this day. I love them, and it’s not a business thing for me, it’s not a job for me. I get to manage my favorite band. I’ve said it before, that if there was a promoter who loved the band as much as I do in every town across America, these guys would be playing arenas. They’re actually starting to move towards that anyway. They got put on a Jay-Z show at an arena.  They got announced on it nine days ago and the ticket count doubled.  It’s almost sold out now.

Music Consultant:

That’s amazing news.  What about online tools? Is there a community that sprung up? Did they do anything right or wrong there, or were they fortunate enough just to have fans to pick up and carry the ball for them?

EP:

I feel like we were one of the bands that clicked right when the Internet was starting to really be meaningful in ’99 or so.  We were looking online the other day and re-registering our website, transferring a bunch of stuff around -we were first online in late ’98.  They had a message board they built themselves. Everything they’ve done so far has been out of the concept to build community. We built our website ourselves. We didn’t use anybody to do it. We sell all our own merchandise out of a warehouse. Our label is us. The point is that we’ve made a lot o decisions that probably made our lives a lot more difficult in the grand scheme of things when we could’ve just gone to a ticketing company and said, “Just sell our tickets,” because we wanted to be connected to the fans. I would take it so personally if one person at customer service with the ticketing company we used to use was short on an e-mail back to somebody who had a problem. We do everything ourselves. We own our sound, our lighting, our warehouse, everything we do. I think that feeds off of it. We were able to build a sense of community. We toured a lot. Last year the band played 58 shows when we definitely used to play 150-200 per year. All this said, as a side note, if the band wasn’t good, none of this would matter.

Music Consultant:

One thing you can’t teach is talent.  Clearly you have a product that appeals to people and that people want to be proud of in some way, shape or form. I was just kind of wondering about the things that really got it to the next level. How did these guys support themselves until the music became their career?

EP:

It took a long while for them to get to a point where they were making the money they are making now.  If they’d have a big gig and make $10,000 for some big show, in Colorado or Atlanta or San Francisco, their first reaction was to take the $10,000 and make the machine bigger. They never said, “Let’s split the money five ways.” A couple of these guys were still living in their cars not as long ago as you would think because it was all about making the show bigger and making the show better. The amount of times I have to stop the ideas they come up with because they are artists in the true sense. They don’t think about what anything costs ever. They just want to make it something that when people leave they don’t forget it.

Right now with two semis on the road, it was the same way nine years ago with a van with an old white parachute that they would project their light show on. Or it was renting lights or decorating the stage with flowers. They always wanted it to be a unique experience. We’ve been able to still do that. For example, at Red Rocks last year in Colorado, we were doing two nights, but we decided to do one night just because we wanted to do something different so it didn’t feel like the same thing every year. We very easily could’ve put one opening act on and sold out Red Rocks. Instead, we built a second stage, started the show at 3 p.m. and put 12 bands on this thing for the same price as we charged before, just because that’s what we do. And people saw all this new talent, and these acts that had never played in front of 50 people played in front of thousands of people at Red Rocks Amphitheater. It was just a really cool thing. We’re doing the same this summer. The tour I’m rolling out this week is amphitheaters every weekend, and we have two opening acts, but we’re not going to stop there. We’re going to have DJs spinning on the side of the stage and have people in the beer tents of venues that have beer tents. We want people to look at an ad and see 7-10 acts and feel like they are getting the best deal they’re getting that summer.

Music Consultant:

So when you’re talking about reinvestment, you guys really have reinvested purely not in the infrastructure or the bureaucracy of your company, but in the product itself.

EP:

Absolutely. We probably spent $50,000 last year at Red Rocks with that whole second stage and starting early and paying the staff, but we just felt like it was the right thing to do. It was. The show sold out and people had the night of their lives. Even when we used to play 200 capacity bars to 10,00 seat amphitheaters, not much has changed; it’s just more trucks.

Music Consultant:

What are you guys doing now online that you’re finding effective?

EP:

There’s a message board that we host. We kind of stepped away from it a little bit in the sense that we gave it to the fans, because it was a lot of work for us, it was us hitting a point in our career where the keyboard player needs to be spending his time learning the new songs or being with his family, not moderating a message board. We picked a few fans and gave it to them. We still have that. A lot of it is content. We have a schedule, for example, for the next six months of what we’re doing every week online, whether it’s releasing a video of an old show that no one’s ever seen before or putting a new video on our YouTube page or making sure we send them a certain number of tweets about a certain number of things. Every e-mail blast for the next six months is already planned.

Music Consultant:

Do you do find it important though to have an on-going stream of media out there so people don’t get bored, even your hardcore fans?

EP:

Absolutely. There are two things:  hitting your core fans, which is the important part of why we’re here; getting things out there like playing with Jay-Z tonight and putting up a remix of a Jay-Z song that we did in the studio. We’re always coming up with different stuff. The band just played their first acoustic show ever at an opera house and sold out in ten seconds. It was a flawless evening and the next album coming out is going to be an acoustic album. It was them on grand piano and no computers, acoustic guitars, acoustic bass. It was a legendary night. It’s content driven, but it has to be good and it has to be done smart. If I know we’re putting out this acoustic album, a lot of times maybe your reaction is to just tell everybody now, but no. Right now we just got off a tour that sold out 19 of the 23 shows, we’re opening for Jay-Z tonight at the Pepsi Center, big deal, and we’re announcing our summer tour. I think a lot of it is spacing things out and making sure you don’t overwhelm too. You have to be smart.

Music Consultant:

Most bands don’t have the luxury of talking about so many high-profile events they can talk about all at once, but your point is a good one.  Talk to me about Coattails. The fact that they seem be giving back to other artists, and possibly were there other artists that helped them starting out? How important was that to them starting out?

EP:

As far as people on our coattails?

Music Consultant:

Or vice versa. The relationships with the community, not only fans but also other musicians. How important was that in their development and does it continue to be in their development?

EP:

I think it’s extremely important. It’s one of those things that it’s hard to tell what’s working when it’s happening.  We just did a remix album where we had 30 artists donate tracks and we donated all the money to build a house in new Orleans. We just hit our goal of $150,000 last week. I read somewhere that somebody said once, “Your career is a forest fire filled with tiny sparks.” It’s all about having an end goal and an end game about what you would love to see if it worked. There are definitely artists we’re going to sign to our label that get a ton of traction, and there are artists that don’t get a ton of traction.

We’ve always said, “No matter what, we’re going to go out of this at least being one of the more unique artists out there. If we’re going to do this, we’re going to fall down trying to run, we’re not going to fall down trying to walk.” That’s been a big part of it. It’s hard to say what’s really triggering everything, but there’s always a reason for hundreds of different people to be talking about STS9, whether it’s our album, or because you’re on our label, or because we put you on a late night show because throughout our whole tour we promote after parties everywhere, where we put all our label people on. We’ve got this built-in audience, so a band that can’t sell 100 tickets in New York plays a sold-out Irving Plaza. I think it’s a big part of everything, and that’s where it’s at these days:  how do you keep evolving? How do you keep being fresh? We’re never going to be the new band on the scene. We’ve been doing this for 12 years. We’re never going to be the new guys. So how do you evolve that? It’s not an idea of going out there for the sake of being relevant and just coming up with stuff to pretend you’re relevant. It’s hard for me to pinpoint exactly what certain things we did, but there’s no better description than that our career is a forest fire filled with tiny sparks.

There are a lot of compromises in life you make as a band. If I could give advice to some of the people that may read this, I could sit here and tell you about all the great stuff we’re doing, but all five band members are 100% involved in everything. I would never be able to do this without them, and I’d like to think I’ve done a lot for them too, but these guys are as involved as it gets.  We all work together and are a 6-person management team and a 6-piece band only one of us doesn’t play an instrument.

——-

Check out STS9, their record label and an upcoming Documentary about the band.

I got the chance to catch up with my friend Emily White of Whitesmith Entertainment and her client Sebastian, who is the self-described drummer and occasional guitar player for Family of the Year.  Many of you have not heard of Family of the Year and that was kind of the idea.  I want to follow the path of a group that is just starting off their career under the guidance of a gifted manager.  I got to catch up Emily and Sebastian just before CMJ.

Musician Coaching:

Sebastian, what is your role business-wise for Family of the Year?

S:

My role is the day-to-day task manager of the band – the liaison between Emily and her team and all the other members of the team. I do scheduling, logistics, etc.

EW:

He’s done an amazing job making sure we’re staying on track. We self-released an EP last month that was donation based and that’s been going really, really well. And we’re releasing their debut album next month. There’s a lot that goes into that:  the artwork and producing the CD’s and mastering and everything that goes into that. Sebastian has been amazing making sure everybody’s staying on track.

S:

The group has naturally evolved into each person having a specific role. No one was assigned anything they didn’t want to take on. My brother (Joseph – guitar / vox in FOTY) is incredibly inclined when it comes to producing and recording music.  It was his major project to write this music and record it.  That was his natural ability.  We’ve got another guy James who has extensive audio engineering background, so he’s at the shows dealing with the technical stuff. We have whiz kids on computers as far as social networking stuff: Christina and Vanessa. Brent is our graphic designer and will eventually take over our website management. He’s been putting Vanessa’s hand-drawn art into the computers in order for us to be able to create all our merchandise and our CD art. It’s naturally turned into a finely-tuned machine.

Musician Coaching:

And you guys are from Silver Lake?

S:

Originally my brother and I are from Massachusetts and the two girls are from Orange County, CA. The two other guys are from the south. One’s from Louisiana and the other is from Jacksonville, FL. We formed in Silver Lake and we now reside a few miles from Silver Lake. We all moved into a big house that we’re rebuilding in the hills outside L.A.

Musician Coaching:

It’s kind of nice you have different sets of friends in different markets.  You must save money on hotel costs.

S:

It certainly does.

EW:

We also do that on the road.  The band bought a 1986 RV, so we haven’t spent anything on hotels.  They all crash together, and sometimes there’s a filmmaker or a sound guy or me, and everybody sleeps pretty well in it.

S:

There are seven of us right now. There’s the band and then Chris.   He’s actually making a documentary about the band.  He’s been traveling with us on and off over the last couple months. Emily is going to be joining us.  It’s usually quite a packed vehicle and really fun … and economical, really.

Musician Coaching:

I first heard of you guys about 90 days ago.  What experiences did you guys have with nationwide touring, either individually or as a group prior to 90 days ago?

S:

We had some experience, but not an extensive amount.  We basically had several DIY tours that we had put together, but we’d never worked with a booking agent.

EW:

These were other bands also.

S:

My brother and James and I used to play in a band together back in Boston for years called Unbusted.  Mostly we were in Boston and New York and the Northeast, but we did go out on the road a few times.  But they were DIY tours, and it was really hard and really expensive and kind of heartbreaking.  You get yourself so very excited, but if the framework isn’t there and you’re not getting yourself out there, then you’re not going to make money and you’re not really going to attract attention.  For years back in Boston when we first knew Emily, she was juggling college and interning and a supporter of our music.  She was on the ball back in the day telling us about mailing lists, social networking websites and things like that. She told us, “This is the way it’s going to be,” and we would say, “No, we’re traditional band that is going to keep playing club after club and wowing people, and soon people will be showing up by the thousands.”  Sure enough, we were wrong. We had some experience touring, but it wasn’t effective touring.  You could go out there and spend two years touring the states, but if certain pieces aren’t in place it’s not going to be a good experience.  We had fun, but as far as trying to build a career and a following and selling albums, it’s next to impossible if you don’t have the correct presence online.  I think that’s the major factor these days.  The biggest difference is an ability to connect with fans.  It’s the only avenue these days.

Musician Coaching:

What has been the difference this time? How did you go about getting a booking agent?

S:

I honestly think it was the strength of the recordings that Joseph and Vanessa had made.  The music was never really intended on being released.  It was really a love child of theirs.  They spent a year and a half in their apartment in Silver Lake recording this music together and falling in love and recording these songs.  It was really a natural, beautiful thing that was turned into our product.  I think that’s what has given us all a chance.  We were reaching out with a lot of people.  I was pretty much going through my Rolodex and saying, “Let me call up everyone I know to pull that one favor.”  I contacted anybody whether they’d slighted us or been really great to us.  I was standing in line at the DMV sending off e-mails.  We were just really excited about what was happening with this band.  We had just formed, we had a couple of really great concerts coming up and we were really excited about the music, and I reflected that in an e-mail to Emily and she came back immediately excited.  And she started kicking butt and churning up some interest from their end.

Musician Coaching:

That’s important to ask you about too.  People have different projects throughout their lives.  Did this feel different?

S:

100%, yes. It is a totally different monster.  Everybody has their teenage/high school band and has high hopes and hometown dreams to fulfill.  And then if you’re not one of those lucky few bands that makes it with your high school buddies, you have your sophomore slump with your next band. We formed another group called the Billionaires that achieved some kind of minor local success in L.A.  We played some really great shows, released some albums, sold some copies but that was a major turning point.  We went from being a small town, hard rock, raw group of kids that moved to the city and matured and settled into songwriting.  Joe always had the ability to write a good song, but I think the music and voice kind of naturally emerged.  It felt different because it felt really right.  We all agreed we could play with this band in any situation, whether it was Madison Square Garden or someone’s kitchen.  That’s really a great feeling, and it’s not just about sound, being too loud or too quiet.  It’s a matter of being really comfortable with it and it representing us.

EW:

They made incredible recordings.  But the reason they were able to do that is because they’ve been musicians for so long. I have other people saying, “How is this happening so quickly?”  Well, although it appears that it’s happening quickly, these guys have been in bands, they’ve played SXSW, they’ve done the DIY tours so they really know what it’s like.  I loved them in college, but they’ve developed so well, and it really shows.  People like us that are listening to music all day, when we hear really great music and really great songwriting, that’s really going to stand out.

S:

I guess I neglected to mention that half the band had been playing music forever, putting on concerts since we were ten with aspirations to become rock stars.  What’s great about the other half of the band is that they haven’t.  We have half junior veterans and half greenhorns.  It keeps it really interesting and fresh for everyone.

Musician Coaching:

I noticed on the website that you guys are doing the name-your-own-price for the CDs. I know a lot of people have advocated this approach. How has it worked for you so far?

S:

It’s been fantastic.  It’s just great.  Everyone gets our music.  I think it’s tough to force someone to pay for something these days, especially when it’s our first release.  We just want to get our music out there.  It’s worked out really well because we end up with the information that is their e-mail address, which I think is more valuable than five dollars.  In the end, we’re bulking up our fan base.  It’s about getting direct to the fans, so this has expedited it.

EW:

We own the rights, so we’re able to do that. And the average donation has been about ten dollars.  Obviously beyond that it’s amazing, because of course, if you can give the band your money, that’s fantastic.  They have a really great artist statement that’s really upfront:  the money goes to gas and bringing these people to your town.  But beyond that, we do just want the word spread.  And if it’s a poor college student that can’t afford anything, awesome, we just want you to hear the music and come out to a show.

S:

We’ve had people pay fifty dollars, we’ve had a thousand people pay nothing.  It doesn’t bother us.  We want the music out there.  I would give anybody a physical copy for free in person if they wanted it.

Musician Coaching:

How long have you been collecting addresses, and how many (ballpark) would you say you have?

EW:

We have been collecting since September 22^nd when it was released.  I think we’ve had 2,000 page views, a few hundred downloads and it’s definitely gone well.  We’re literally using that to spend on Facebook ads, posters and reinvest in the band right away.

S:

Just reinvesting and reaching out a little further.  It’s great to spread out the money and invest a little more. We’re not pocketing it.

EW:

Sebastian had a great point about data collection.  It’s wonderful for me to see these e-mail addresses, the countries, the person’s name.  I write back to some people and say, “You’re in Australia, how did you hear about this band?”

S:

We’ve got these great Google analytics coming through.  Greece is number three (The third ranked country for FOTY web traffic).  It’s really cool and great information.  It’s fantastic to be able to see the information and reach out to them.  The whole world is conspiring right now to help the indie band.

EW:

Our number one traffic generator has been Twitter.  That’s great, because it’s the band interacting with fans and with other artists, and it’s making a huge difference.  We’re going to do a similar thing for their album release next month.  It’s going to be a donation-based album, a 15-song album.  Anybody that pays over ten dollars is going to get a physical copy.  We’ll probably do a couple other tiers too.

Musician Coaching:

How about the postcard campaign?

(To help fund their trip to CMJ Family of the Year offered fans personalized post cards from the road for a $5 donation)

S:

It’s going great.  We’ve had a huge response to it.  I don’t know how many we’ve done, but we’ve done a bunch.  It’s fun for the band.  It’s old school Twitter.  It’s direct to the people, and people want that.  I know I would want that if I was falling in love with a band again.

EW:

People like to know that they’re helping out.  I went to Jill Sobule’s show last night, and she brought the fan up on stage that had donated the most amount of money on her album, and she wrote a song for that fan and did a duet with her and I almost cried.  The fan literally helped make this album.

S:

We’ve had several people purchase several postcards. It’s overwhelming that if you give people the opportunity to help out, so many people will take that opportunity.

EW:

Cut out the middle person. People really like supporting artists that they’re into, so we’ve been really blessed.

S:

We’ve had a really positive reaction at live shows whenever we mention from the stage that we’re doing this on our own and we need help.  It’s amazing.  People love the idea of it.  It’s not just hoots and hollers.  People actually react and come and purchase stuff.

Musician Coaching:

I was always fond of buying a drink for a band coming through town, but gas money seems a much better use of everybody’s time. What’s this documentary all about?

S:

It just slid in perfectly with work and planning.  Vanessa is an actress and has been one forever.  The DP on the last film she worked on was a fan of our music, and we invited him to come out with us.  He expressed interest in working on a filmed documentary of the band.  It just worked out that he cleared his schedule and just fit in perfectly with the band.  It’s not as if there’s ever any kind of weirdness about this extra person hanging out.  He’s just a great friend of the band.  I don’t know how to describe it, but it just worked out.

EW:

We’re incredibly lucky that it came through. Chris has been busting ass, and I’ll wake up and see him literally sleeping on the RV floor.  He’s amazing.

Musician Coaching:

Are you going to repurpose the footage at all?

S:

We have a five-minute short that’s going to be released soon, though we’re not sure what it’s going to be released with.  Later on after this full tour we’re doing, there’s going to be a twenty to thirty minute documentary of the whole thing.  And it’s really focusing around the band doing it itself.  It’s not just the antics of being on tour.  It’s focusing on what we’re talking about so far.

Musician Coaching:

Is there stuff that you’ve tried that hasn’t work?  Advice to somebody who will ultimately be reading this?

S:

Definitely listen to Emily White. (Laughs) If we had listened to her five years ago we would’ve been a lot further down the road, though I think also if we had, we wouldn’t be here today.  But seriously, I think that in rock and roll, it’s really hard to give the Internet as much credit as it’s due.  Computers aren’t fun, computers aren’t cool, but it’s absolutely critical to be in touch with people.  It’s a new era and a new age.  And be creative.  If you’re having fun people will have fun as well.  Whether you had fun creating your artwork as a group, naming your group or making your album, it does reflect in the product no matter what it is.

EW:

Focusing on the work and the art is important.  The art has to be amazing.  I don’t think musicians should spend more than an hour or two a day on social networking.  They should be rehearsing and writing and recording.  It’s important and needs to be kept up but really cap it at two hours. We’re all here to support these artists and their music.

S:

I guess I neglected to say that because it’s such an automatic thing for me.

EW:

There are so many musicians that get too caught up in all the social networking stuff, and I think that can be overwhelming and dangerous.

Musician Coaching:

Yea, I have found it can be a dangerous time suck as well…

S:

Back to the whole dynamic of the group and the roles.  It’s been amazing that Joe, who is the band leader, producer, songwriter hasn’t been tethered to this business bologna at all.  Of course we all make the decisions together, but he’s not getting on Twitter.

EW:

I don’t want his head in it.  His head needs to be in music all the time.

S:

It’s really been ideal.  If there’s an opportunity to divvy up jobs where it’s stress free, that’s the thing to do.

EW:

These guys are working their asses off.  It’s really impressive.

S:

I want to reiterate “practice.”  We’ve been playing forever, and it still isn’t enough.  We spent six days a week since March from 7 p.m. to 3 a.m. in our rehearsal space.

EW:

I wanted to say on the filmmaker thing, we have to be creative about those partners too.  I know tons of video directors and filmmakers that are used to getting budgets from labels.  But MTV doesn’t exist and YouTube doesn’t always give the rev share people need to get the money back.  For Chris, we haven’t set exactly how we’re going to release that content. But that filmmaker is an artist too, and that’s part of the donation process.

——

Check out family of the year

I was fortunate enough to sit down with my friend Reverend Dave Ciancio from Yeah! Management.  Dave was one of the founders of the hard rock indie promotion, marketing and management firm The Syndicate and recently has started  Yeah! Management.  I have been fortunate enough to know Dave for a long time and have watched him help the careers of dozens of hard rock bands.

Musician Coaching:

Tell me about Yeah! Management!

DC:

I run Yeah! Management, an organization within Artist Arena. Artist Arena is a company that handles VIP Fan Clubs and tickets. So for example if the Rolling Stones go on tour, you can by a seat on the stage and a drink with Mick Jagger for $10,000. We don’t do the Rolling Stones, but that’s the concept.  What’s cool about it is that we have access to all the people that Artist Arena has access to, whether that would be Green Day’s manager or the people at Warner Music Group or the Agency Group people. So, it becomes beneficial for our own artists to learn and watch and piggyback onto what is happening in the larger company.

Musician Coaching:

So you’re doing primarily hard rock and metal management, like Poison the Well and Shadows Fall. What are the other stand-outs?

DC: Shadows Fall is our flagship band, and I’ve been working with them since they were unsigned. They are kind of my band of brothers. They bring in a lot of attention from metal bands. A lot of our roster is hard rock, but we have a couple pop bands like TAT and VersaEmerge. We’re all over the place as long as it’s rock and roll.

Musician Coaching:

What gets your attention as a manager business wise?

DC:

From my last couple years at The Syndicate I was on a signing freeze. I wasn’t looking for anything new. I really believed in our roster and felt really committed and busy and had enough going on that I didn’t see a need to expand the roster. When we started the new company, I realized that without having to be in charge of doing all the marketing stuff I definitely had time to bring on more. With bringing on new employees and being in a new situation, I realized we had room for new bands. It became about relearning a process I hadn’t done in a few years – looking for young talent. The more popular your roster gets or the more successful a band you manage gets, the more bands that come to you. I couldn’t pick out a particular attribute that really shines, but in the end it comes down to, “Do I have an appreciation for the songwriting? Do I like the band members as people? Are they business savvy or willing to be business savvy?” And then there’s that Superstar X Factor – “What makes this band stand out? Is it the actual players in the band, the vocalist, or are they pretty? Do they own some other company or do something else that might help jumpstart their career, like a merch company or are they a skater?” It’s any number of things, but my criteria has gone up, and I’m a lot less willing to jump on things because I like them. I’ve found many times in the past that just because you like a band doesn’t mean you should work with them, and sometimes it’s better to just be a fan or help people out. Criteria wise? Be awesome.

Musician Coaching:

The online thing has changed a lot, and you’ve spent a lot of time working on marketing with bands. Are there things out there you think all bands should be doing to promote their careers that are low- or no-cost?

DC:

Everybody needs to be on Twitter and Facebook and Myspace. If you’re not there, what are you doing? You need to know how people are looking for something or how they are looking for music. Maybe it’s reading a magazine or clicking on YouTube all day or looking on Facebook, or maybe a friend has to tell someone about it. You never know how someone is going to find something, so you have to be everywhere. If a person likes listening to music on Pure Volume, be on Pure Volume. If a person likes listening to music on iLike, be on iLike. If people are on a Twitter frenzy, then be on Twitter and have something interesting to say. You have to be where the people are, and that’s the foundation. Once you’re there, you can market yourself; but if you’re not online, what’s the point?

Musician Coaching:

I notice that you do a lot of social networking yourself. Do you have any suggestions for expanding your reach?

DC: The standard answer applies – be interesting. Find something you like to talk about or are an expert on, or something you think you can use to draw attention to yourself. For example, I like to talk about burgers, so I started a burger Web site. Aaron from Underoath is a big foodie, and people are starting to know him because of the food. It takes him out of being just an artist, or the drummer in the band or the singer in a band; he’s now a food guy. So there’s another reason for people to pay attention. I think one of the problems with marketing today, especially for bands is that is becomes very unilateral – “Talk about the music.” People who are into music are into lifestyle. I think if you’re going to be on Twitter and Facebook and bother to have a Tumblr blog, you need to realize that the audience you have probably isn’t just interested in music. If you can bring something else to the table, bring it. Social networking is all about tools, and you have to know how to use them. There are all kinds of Twitter applications that can help you find new people or stay on top of your account. I check my Twitter karma once a week for my marketing stuff – Am I following all the people that are following me? Am I following too many people that don’t matter? In the Twitter world this is looked at as spam. It’s really about knowing how to use the tools.

Musician Coaching: Talk to me more about aspiring artists and what they should be doing to maintain relationships with their fan base?

DC: There’s nothing more important than engaging a fan base. If people have found their way to you, you have to assume it’s not just about music. I can’t tell you how many times I listened to Pantera as a kid, and all they did was talk about smoking pot. I liked smoking pot as a kid, so that appealed to me. I’m not saying every band should go on their website and start talking about pot, but you need to find what you do and figure it out and use it. It all comes back to be interesting and find out how to network. As far as generating mailing lists, it’s just natural. If you’re going to have a Myspace page, get a Mozes account, and if you’re going to have a Mozes account, get a Reverb Nation account. You can collect e-mails and phone numbers. For young bands, I’m a big fan of Ning and Drupal Sites. You can create your own Myspace and social network. We did this with Shadows Fall, and had a lot of success. We had a couple thousand people and called it a fan club, and told people to sign up for free. To use that appropriately, I can send people on there a message with the click of a button that says, “Tickets for our new tour are on sale today. We’re going to give you people 24-hour access before the public.” Things like that are really good.

Musician Coaching:

Being a hard rock band or a metal band, the road has to be a part of your life. What was the process of building a touring base like?

DC:

It’s really hard, especially in modern times and the modern economy. There’s no money out there.  You have to give to get. When I first started in the music business and I wanted to manage bands, there was certainly not enough money on the table to do what I wanted full time, so I had to DJ at a club on Tuesday nights just to make the rent. It’s a matter of how much you’re willing to sacrifice. If you’re a young band and you want to build a touring base, get on the road and figure out how to stay on the road and maximize on the road. Keep costs down.

Musician Coaching:

Are there any specific tricks or common mistakes you see when people overspend?

DC: I think the most common one I see is that bands will spend a significant amount of time on the road getting paid $100 per night, scraping nickels together to get to the next gig and just pulling into town with three drops of gas left in the tank, and the minute they see a little bit of success, it becomes a game of luxury – “Now we want three guitar techs and two buses.” The magic disappears at some point. Not everybody can get up and stay up. And then they get accustomed to it and can’t adjust their business to fit economies of scale. The biggest mistake I see is getting a taste of it and not realizing you may not see it again. It’s better to get a taste of it and then try to keep as many of those methods of saving money with you so you keep your money.

Musician Coaching:

Do you think it’s necessary for most artists to discuss something other than their music?

DC:

It depends. I love to look at a band like Pantera. For years all they were was “F**king Pantera,” and they didn’t need anything else. Then the DVD’s came out and we saw them backstage and partying and playing these massive shows and that took it to the next level.  That’s how they got their personality. Even if you’re Dream Theater, and you’re clearly a musicians’-based band, play that up. They talk about drum lessons and guitar lessons and tablatures. Maybe they’re not talking about the new single on the record, but they are still talking about something else and appealing to the audience. I think it’s important to talk about something more than the songs and the tour and the record. What else are you doing that makes you who you are?

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You can check out Dave’s quest for Burgers and of course his music management company at Burger Conquest and Yeah! Management