This site is a blog for musicians and music industry people. It is a free educational resource and it is also the way I advertise my music consulting services. I am an entertainment professional with deep roots in the music industry. Throughout my music career I have been a major label A&R representative, a music supervisor, an artist manager, a reality show producer, a bass player and the head of a digital record label.
I got the chance to catch up with my friend Emily White of Whitesmith Entertainment and her client Sebastian, who is the self-described drummer and occasional guitar player for Family of the Year. Many of you have not heard of Family of the Year and that was kind of the idea. I want to follow the path of a group that is just starting off their career under the guidance of a gifted manager. I got to catch up Emily and Sebastian just before CMJ.
Sebastian, what is your role business-wise for Family of the Year?
S:
My role is the day-to-day task manager of the band – the liaison between Emily and her team and all the other members of the team. I do scheduling, logistics, etc.
EW:
He’s done an amazing job making sure we’re staying on track. We self-released an EP last month that was donation based and that’s been going really, really well. And we’re releasing their debut album next month. There’s a lot that goes into that: the artwork and producing the CD’s and mastering and everything that goes into that. Sebastian has been amazing making sure everybody’s staying on track.
S:
The group has naturally evolved into each person having a specific role. No one was assigned anything they didn’t want to take on. My brother (Joseph – guitar / vox in FOTY) is incredibly inclined when it comes to producing and recording music. It was his major project to write this music and record it. That was his natural ability. We’ve got another guy James who has extensive audio engineering background, so he’s at the shows dealing with the technical stuff. We have whiz kids on computers as far as social networking stuff: Christina and Vanessa. Brent is our graphic designer and will eventually take over our website management. He’s been putting Vanessa’s hand-drawn art into the computers in order for us to be able to create all our merchandise and our CD art. It’s naturally turned into a finely-tuned machine.
And you guys are from Silver Lake?
S:
Originally my brother and I are from Massachusetts and the two girls are from Orange County, CA. The two other guys are from the south. One’s from Louisiana and the other is from Jacksonville, FL. We formed in Silver Lake and we now reside a few miles from Silver Lake. We all moved into a big house that we’re rebuilding in the hills outside L.A.
It’s kind of nice you have different sets of friends in different markets. You must save money on hotel costs.
S:
It certainly does.
EW:
We also do that on the road. The band bought a 1986 RV, so we haven’t spent anything on hotels. They all crash together, and sometimes there’s a filmmaker or a sound guy or me, and everybody sleeps pretty well in it.
S:
There are seven of us right now. There’s the band and then Chris. He’s actually making a documentary about the band. He’s been traveling with us on and off over the last couple months. Emily is going to be joining us. It’s usually quite a packed vehicle and really fun … and economical, really.
I first heard of you guys about 90 days ago. What experiences did you guys have with nationwide touring, either individually or as a group prior to 90 days ago?
S:
We had some experience, but not an extensive amount. We basically had several DIY tours that we had put together, but we’d never worked with a booking agent.
EW:
These were other bands also.
S:
My brother and James and I used to play in a band together back in Boston for years called Unbusted. Mostly we were in Boston and New York and the Northeast, but we did go out on the road a few times. But they were DIY tours, and it was really hard and really expensive and kind of heartbreaking. You get yourself so very excited, but if the framework isn’t there and you’re not getting yourself out there, then you’re not going to make money and you’re not really going to attract attention. For years back in Boston when we first knew Emily, she was juggling college and interning and a supporter of our music. She was on the ball back in the day telling us about mailing lists, social networking websites and things like that. She told us, “This is the way it’s going to be,” and we would say, “No, we’re traditional band that is going to keep playing club after club and wowing people, and soon people will be showing up by the thousands.” Sure enough, we were wrong. We had some experience touring, but it wasn’t effective touring. You could go out there and spend two years touring the states, but if certain pieces aren’t in place it’s not going to be a good experience. We had fun, but as far as trying to build a career and a following and selling albums, it’s next to impossible if you don’t have the correct presence online. I think that’s the major factor these days. The biggest difference is an ability to connect with fans. It’s the only avenue these days.
What has been the difference this time? How did you go about getting a booking agent?
S:
I honestly think it was the strength of the recordings that Joseph and Vanessa had made. The music was never really intended on being released. It was really a love child of theirs. They spent a year and a half in their apartment in Silver Lake recording this music together and falling in love and recording these songs. It was really a natural, beautiful thing that was turned into our product. I think that’s what has given us all a chance. We were reaching out with a lot of people. I was pretty much going through my Rolodex and saying, “Let me call up everyone I know to pull that one favor.” I contacted anybody whether they’d slighted us or been really great to us. I was standing in line at the DMV sending off e-mails. We were just really excited about what was happening with this band. We had just formed, we had a couple of really great concerts coming up and we were really excited about the music, and I reflected that in an e-mail to Emily and she came back immediately excited. And she started kicking butt and churning up some interest from their end.
That’s important to ask you about too. People have different projects throughout their lives. Did this feel different?
S:
100%, yes. It is a totally different monster. Everybody has their teenage/high school band and has high hopes and hometown dreams to fulfill. And then if you’re not one of those lucky few bands that makes it with your high school buddies, you have your sophomore slump with your next band. We formed another group called the Billionaires that achieved some kind of minor local success in L.A. We played some really great shows, released some albums, sold some copies but that was a major turning point. We went from being a small town, hard rock, raw group of kids that moved to the city and matured and settled into songwriting. Joe always had the ability to write a good song, but I think the music and voice kind of naturally emerged. It felt different because it felt really right. We all agreed we could play with this band in any situation, whether it was Madison Square Garden or someone’s kitchen. That’s really a great feeling, and it’s not just about sound, being too loud or too quiet. It’s a matter of being really comfortable with it and it representing us.
EW:
They made incredible recordings. But the reason they were able to do that is because they’ve been musicians for so long. I have other people saying, “How is this happening so quickly?” Well, although it appears that it’s happening quickly, these guys have been in bands, they’ve played SXSW, they’ve done the DIY tours so they really know what it’s like. I loved them in college, but they’ve developed so well, and it really shows. People like us that are listening to music all day, when we hear really great music and really great songwriting, that’s really going to stand out.
S:
I guess I neglected to mention that half the band had been playing music forever, putting on concerts since we were ten with aspirations to become rock stars. What’s great about the other half of the band is that they haven’t. We have half junior veterans and half greenhorns. It keeps it really interesting and fresh for everyone.
I noticed on the website that you guys are doing the name-your-own-price for the CDs. I know a lot of people have advocated this approach. How has it worked for you so far?
S:
It’s been fantastic. It’s just great. Everyone gets our music. I think it’s tough to force someone to pay for something these days, especially when it’s our first release. We just want to get our music out there. It’s worked out really well because we end up with the information that is their e-mail address, which I think is more valuable than five dollars. In the end, we’re bulking up our fan base. It’s about getting direct to the fans, so this has expedited it.
EW:
We own the rights, so we’re able to do that. And the average donation has been about ten dollars. Obviously beyond that it’s amazing, because of course, if you can give the band your money, that’s fantastic. They have a really great artist statement that’s really upfront: the money goes to gas and bringing these people to your town. But beyond that, we do just want the word spread. And if it’s a poor college student that can’t afford anything, awesome, we just want you to hear the music and come out to a show.
S:
We’ve had people pay fifty dollars, we’ve had a thousand people pay nothing. It doesn’t bother us. We want the music out there. I would give anybody a physical copy for free in person if they wanted it.
How long have you been collecting addresses, and how many (ballpark) would you say you have?
EW:
We have been collecting since September 22nd when it was released. I think we’ve had 2,000 page views, a few hundred downloads and it’s definitely gone well. We’re literally using that to spend on Facebook ads, posters and reinvest in the band right away.
S:
Just reinvesting and reaching out a little further. It’s great to spread out the money and invest a little more. We’re not pocketing it.
EW:
Sebastian had a great point about data collection. It’s wonderful for me to see these e-mail addresses, the countries, the person’s name. I write back to some people and say, “You’re in Australia, how did you hear about this band?”
S:
We’ve got these great Google analytics coming through. Greece is number three (The third ranked country for FOTY web traffic). It’s really cool and great information. It’s fantastic to be able to see the information and reach out to them. The whole world is conspiring right now to help the indie band.
EW:
Our number one traffic generator has been Twitter. That’s great, because it’s the band interacting with fans and with other artists, and it’s making a huge difference. We’re going to do a similar thing for their album release next month. It’s going to be a donation-based album, a 15-song album. Anybody that pays over ten dollars is going to get a physical copy. We’ll probably do a couple other tiers too.
How about the postcard campaign?
(To help fund their trip to CMJ Family of the Year offered fans personalized post cards from the road for a $5 donation)
S:
It’s going great. We’ve had a huge response to it. I don’t know how many we’ve done, but we’ve done a bunch. It’s fun for the band. It’s old school Twitter. It’s direct to the people, and people want that. I know I would want that if I was falling in love with a band again.
EW:
People like to know that they’re helping out. I went to Jill Sobule’s show last night, and she brought the fan up on stage that had donated the most amount of money on her album, and she wrote a song for that fan and did a duet with her and I almost cried. The fan literally helped make this album.
S:
We’ve had several people purchase several postcards. It’s overwhelming that if you give people the opportunity to help out, so many people will take that opportunity.
EW:
Cut out the middle person. People really like supporting artists that they’re into, so we’ve been really blessed.
S:
We’ve had a really positive reaction at live shows whenever we mention from the stage that we’re doing this on our own and we need help. It’s amazing. People love the idea of it. It’s not just hoots and hollers. People actually react and come and purchase stuff.
I was always fond of buying a drink for a band coming through town, but gas money seems a much better use of everybody’s time. What’s this documentary all about?
S:
It just slid in perfectly with work and planning. Vanessa is an actress and has been one forever. The DP on the last film she worked on was a fan of our music, and we invited him to come out with us. He expressed interest in working on a filmed documentary of the band. It just worked out that he cleared his schedule and just fit in perfectly with the band. It’s not as if there’s ever any kind of weirdness about this extra person hanging out. He’s just a great friend of the band. I don’t know how to describe it, but it just worked out.
EW:
We’re incredibly lucky that it came through. Chris has been busting ass, and I’ll wake up and see him literally sleeping on the RV floor. He’s amazing.
Are you going to repurpose the footage at all?
S:
We have a five-minute short that’s going to be released soon, though we’re not sure what it’s going to be released with. Later on after this full tour we’re doing, there’s going to be a twenty to thirty minute documentary of the whole thing. And it’s really focusing around the band doing it itself. It’s not just the antics of being on tour. It’s focusing on what we’re talking about so far.
Is there stuff that you’ve tried that hasn’t work? Advice to somebody who will ultimately be reading this?
S:
Definitely listen to Emily White. (Laughs) If we had listened to her five years ago we would’ve been a lot further down the road, though I think also if we had, we wouldn’t be here today. But seriously, I think that in rock and roll, it’s really hard to give the Internet as much credit as it’s due. Computers aren’t fun, computers aren’t cool, but it’s absolutely critical to be in touch with people. It’s a new era and a new age. And be creative. If you’re having fun people will have fun as well. Whether you had fun creating your artwork as a group, naming your group or making your album, it does reflect in the product no matter what it is.
EW:
Focusing on the work and the art is important. The art has to be amazing. I don’t think musicians should spend more than an hour or two a day on social networking. They should be rehearsing and writing and recording. It’s important and needs to be kept up but really cap it at two hours. We’re all here to support these artists and their music.
S:
I guess I neglected to say that because it’s such an automatic thing for me.
EW:
There are so many musicians that get too caught up in all the social networking stuff, and I think that can be overwhelming and dangerous.
Yea, I have found it can be a dangerous time suck as well…
S:
Back to the whole dynamic of the group and the roles. It’s been amazing that Joe, who is the band leader, producer, songwriter hasn’t been tethered to this business bologna at all. Of course we all make the decisions together, but he’s not getting on Twitter.
EW:
I don’t want his head in it. His head needs to be in music all the time.
S:
It’s really been ideal. If there’s an opportunity to divvy up jobs where it’s stress free, that’s the thing to do.
EW:
These guys are working their asses off. It’s really impressive.
S:
I want to reiterate “practice.” We’ve been playing forever, and it still isn’t enough. We spent six days a week since March from 7 p.m. to 3 a.m. in our rehearsal space.
EW:
I wanted to say on the filmmaker thing, we have to be creative about those partners too. I know tons of video directors and filmmakers that are used to getting budgets from labels. But MTV doesn’t exist and YouTube doesn’t always give the rev share people need to get the money back. For Chris, we haven’t set exactly how we’re going to release that content. But that filmmaker is an artist too, and that’s part of the donation process.
——
Check out family of the year
Or is it great managers make great bands? Chicken and the egg I suppose.
As some of you recall I interviewed Emily White of Whitesmith Entertainment about music and management not too long ago. She had just started working with a group called Family of the Year. Granted Emily is a gifted manager and got the band in front of the right people but I thought it would be interesting for everyone to see the progress they have made in the last few weeks. They are doing some interesting things to tie in show attendance with their new release and some cool promotion ideas. I won’t tell if you decide to steal these ideas.
I suppose it might seem odd to interview a band that hasn’t made it but when I speak to people who have followings they tend to speak more about maintenance than building…
From Emily @ Whitesmith:
The band is releasing their debut EP, Where’s The Sun on their brand new imprint, Washashore, which will be available exclusively by donation on 9/22 at FamilyOfTheYear.Net and up on itunes/amazon via Tunecore, shortly after:
People who show up at the 9/16 Knitting Factory (LA) show will get an advance DL code for free (7:30 set time, fyi). The band also plays The Knitting Factory on 9/27.
After interest from various agents after playing only TWO shows, the band signed with Steve Ferguson at Paradigm on Wednesday. Steve immediately locked a support slot at The Troubadour (10/12) and The Great American Music Hall in San Fran (supporting World/Inferno Friendship Society) and is working on an East coast tour around CMJ.
The band will be playing the Whitesmith Entertainment/Indaba Music showcase at The Living Room at CMJ on 10.21 and Whitesmith/CASH Music party at Crash Mansion on 10.20.
To help fund the trip for CMJ, the band is doing an “Old-School Twitter” promotion. Next week, we are launching the EP promo page that will also allow fans to buy a postcard for $5.
The real postcard is a much better quality image
FOTY will send you a postcard from the road as a thank you to help fund their trip. However, before it gets popped in the mail, we will scan it and upload the various postcards online, so fans can look online where their piece of the tour story falls in the collection.
Also, we are collecting email addresses with Google Voice at shows. The band made this sign to show it off during their set.
I would like to say that this band is moving forward so quickly for three reasons:
1. They made incredible music. I say all the time “make great art.” We tend to get caught up in all of these business models, platforms, and strategies and sometimes I think both the artist and industry forget why were actually here.
2. They’ve been blessed with a team of volunteers and early supporters (not all Whitesmith) to help out with the band for the love of it. We couldn’t do it without them. But don’t over think this, it’s about 5 people total ranging from an 18 year old Boston University intern who is currently in classes and helps in his spare time.
3. The band all know their roles and are each bringing something to the table. Joe Keefe (lead vocal/guitar/piano) has his head in songwriting, that’s where it belongs. His brother Sebastian (drums/acoustic guitar/vocal) is the liaison from me to the other 5 members of the band. He makes sure everyone stays on the time line we set in place. Christina (keyboards) has a day job at a PR firm and helped to write the bio, skin the Twitter page, and runs the MS and FB page (so great when it’s genuinely the artist and not one of my peeps!). Vanessa (female lead) has been designing the EP and merch artwork as well as hooked up a film crew for their first show, who owed her dad a favor. Jamesy (electric guitar) is a sound guru and has been handling all of the mixing and mastering that we’d otherwise have to pay for, even though we self-recorded everything in their rehearsal space). And newest member Brent (bass) is a web designer. They are like trivial pursuit pieces of pie that all fit together perfectly. I am honored to work with Family Of The Year.
—————
The band also quickly wrote a song based on a Twitter trending topic (yesterday) RT @FamilyOfTheYear exclusive song for today’s trending topic: “When We Were Little”
#wheniwaslittle
I am actually pretty psyched about the New Music Seminar book that was given out when you purchased a badge. In the past guidebooks tended to be lists of the events and panels and performances as well as a contact list of the industry people who were attending and very little else. This guidebook has tons of information geared directly to the artist including sample tour budgets, riders and advice from industry professionals on their topic of expertise. My personal favorite piece of advice from the book was from Kevin Lyman of the Warped Tour who suggested checking the oil in your van on a regular basis and several ways to prevent your gear from being stolen on the road.
I was perhaps overly critical in my post yesterday about the panels as I forgot to mention that Emily White from Whitesmith Entertainment offered very real and tangible ways that Amanda Palmer and her other artists retained fans from the road including having her tour manager’s cell phone number shouted out from stage for the purpose of collecting fan email addresses via SMS. Of all of the panelist I got the sense from her that she had spent the most time at ground level working with bands (and it turns out she started out tour managing the Dresden Dolls). The rest of the panelists were discussing some good advice for fan retention and interaction but I wanted to hear more about the process of building a fan base. As I mentioned yesterday I missed the touring panel and I am sure judging by the members on it they would have much more experience in growing a following than I would but this is what I’ve learned and oddly most of it came from my time as a gigging musician rather than an industry executive.
I played bass (and became the manager by default) of a seven piece band that had a three year run from 1992-1995. The band was by no means a big success but we did manage to bring between 200-300 fans out on a regular basis towards the end of our little run in the NYC market which is a particularly difficult market to build a following. I’ve had other projects but this one makes the most sense to describe because it was really the band I learned the most from because I knew absolutely nothing when I started. I have since used modern tools in other projects I have been in more recently but these examples somehow still resonate.
Our first gig came about opening for a friend’s band. We were spared the cold calling and got a pretty lousy time slot club that at best held 400 people (I mean really held 400 people not what the fire marshal said it should hold). It was late-ish on a weekday night but we did manage to put 35 or so people in the room and we were invited back. At that point I don’t think we had even spoken to the guy who booked the room other than to ask what kind of back line was available and I’m pretty sure as it was our first gig that none of us really knew that it was called a back line.
It’s a funny thing being in a band, the idea was to play music and not have a real job because I hated the part time jobs I was able to get at the time and I think I dreaded job interviews even more. I would come to realize that every gig we ever played was simply a job interview for the next gig. If we wanted a better job at a better time slot on a better night we had to out perform the attendance expectations. If we wanted the same people who were there that night to come back the next time we played then we had better put on a damn good show.
I befriended the promoter of that first venue, it turns out he also booked a few other clubs and as we drew well for him on a usually slow week night. He was kind enough to suggest a few other nights at his other venues with bands that were more “our kind of music”. At the time we wanted to be like the JBs but were all very young and overplayed too much so it wound up being more like (sigh) disco. We played many such gigs with other bands who had a similar sound and were able to pull some fans from them as well.
I can already see this will be too long winded so I’ll sum up the things that helped the most going from a few dozen friends to a regular draw of several hundred people.
1) Make personal connections. I am going to take it for granted that everyone wanting to build a business is collecting email addresses and on all the social networks and using some restraint so as not to mass email everyone six times a day about important stuff like the lead singer having a headache. But I most remember being out and about with my bass on my back talking to people I worked with, talking to people I went to school with, talking to record store clerks and just talking to anyone about music. We wheat pasted flyers to telephone polls and send out mailers but I most remember that the people I stopped to talk to (without hard selling them) and actually handed a flyer to were the people who most often showed up. I still believe that looking someone in the eye will always be much more effective than emailing (at least locally). A side note about wheat pasting, I’m pretty sure no one does it anymore and it’s illegal (in NY) and the clubs get fined so be wary. Also be wary of smoking cigarettes while wheat pasting because inhaling wheat past that lands on your cigarette can be rather disorienting albeit not entirely unpleasant.
2) Be fearless. Like a band? Want to open for them? (and no, not U2, the big local or regional act) Introduce yourself after a show, get an email address explain your situation if they have some time. I’d be surprised if they didn’t do the same thing to the big regional act when they were coming up. Several larger acts mentored me after introducing myself in this way and one in particular became a life long friend. These relationships allowed my band to open up for some really powerful regional acts and really grew our band’s profile.
3) Be humble – Ask questions. Find people who have what you want, or even better find people who have what they want and ask them how they got it. For better or for worse I asked a local promoter for an unpaid internship because I wanted to learn how to get my band signed (yea, yea it was the 90s, shut up) and it got me an internship at Atlantic records. Ask the people at local clubs what they have found to be the most effective ways of promoting shows at their venue as soon as you book the gig and listen. The question alone let’s the person booking your act know that you care about your business.
4) Be Polite, follow up and don’t take rejection personally.
If you are in a position of cold calling put yourself in the position of the person on the other end of the line. And then think back to the stereotype of all musicians- guys and gals – as a rule, we suck! How much mediocrity and worse is out there? Do you silently groan when you see 3-4 normal looking people who are unknown to you take the stage before they have even opened their mouths or played a note? Well okay then… now picture it is your job to sift through mediocrity that we all know so well. If the last visual didn’t grab you go immediately to Guitar Center and stand in the guitar section listening to people trying out instruments for an hour if you come back smiling (from joy not Schadenfruede) please Fedex me some of what you are on immediately. Short story long – would you be happy to hear from a musician you didn’t know? I’m gonna go ahead and guess no. So call, be polite – provide facts about your business and accolades not how talented you are and then call as many other clubs that would have an act of your size and hope for the call back. Ask them their preferred method of getting material to them and do it as they request. Monday nights and open mics are the way to start and take baby steps from there.
5) Start small, start segmented. I will give it up to Terry McBride from Nettwerk who when I asked the basic build a band question to the panel he was on @ NMS simply said “start small, start local – Tribes.” This is sound advice. Go after an audience or community one community or segment at a time. At college- go after college students. Work at a big company? Go after co-workers. Belong to a strong group of some kind be it religious, national, political or hobby oriented? Group them together and market to them. The band I was in targeted the intoxicated, NYU students, Kung Fu fans and video gamers and even before the internet we manged to find these people. Be sure you are a part of these communities though because outsiders pedaling their wares with a hard sell are not at all welcome.
I may be way to scattered to be a blogger but those are some of the things that helped me – drop me an email I want to hear from you.
