This site is a blog for musicians and music industry people. It is a free educational resource and it is also the way I advertise my music consulting services. I am an entertainment professional with deep roots in the music industry. Throughout my music career I have been a major label A&R representative, a music supervisor, an artist manager, a reality show producer, a bass player and the head of a digital record label.
Established music manager Peter Malkin seems to think you shouldn’t… Enjoy.
Should An Artist Sign A 360º Deal? from Peter Malkin on Vimeo.
Dave “Snake” Sabo is best known for being a guitar player, songwriter and founding member of Skid Row but he is also currently an artist manager at McGhee Entertainment (KISS, Ted Nugent, Darius Rucker, Night Ranger, Down and many more). He directly handles management for Down and Warner Brothers recording artist Meghan Kabir.
Snake, thanks for taking the time to speak with me today. You’ve been working for McGhee entertainment as a manager for the last five years and Doc and Scott McGhee used to manage Skid Row, correct?
SS:
Yes, they were both very involved but Scott was really involved. Doc is like a big brother to me, and Scott is too, but we’re more friends. We became so close in the time we worked together it was like we were siblings. We would yell and fight with each other, quit on each other, fire each other. One of the things that was always true is that I was always a sponge and wanted to learn the business side of the music business, because it intrigued me and I loved the idea of how it worked and all the different moving parts. People see a band that goes out o stage for a couple hours, and they go home and go back to doing what they do. I don’t know if people realize that it’s a 24-7 moving machine. That really intrigued me from a really young age, from the time I was 17 years old starting bands and being in bands and playing in cover bands. Whatever the case was, I was always interested in the business side of it. Throughout the whole time we worked together I was always over their shoulders. Doc used to call me “The Gnat,” because I would always be over his shoulders. I was the guy who right after a show when we were on tour with Bon Jovi or Aerosmith going over the merchandise sheets and seeing what we did per head and what the building got. I made sure I knew how to read contracts, because I wanted to know what I was signing. Not that I didn’t trust anybody- I absolutely trusted Doc and Scott implicitly, but I wanted to know. I need to know why. I’m the guy at the computer who can be in deep and working on editing music, and if my clock is wrong, I will spend two hours trying to figure it out. That’s my OCD.
You had an enormous amount of success at a time before there were a lot of artists handling their business on their own. You were either a local band in a club or signed to a record label getting onto a tour. Did being observant of your business dealings serve you in your career?
SS:
Absolutely. It served positively and negatively. There’s something great to be said about an artist who is just an artist and goes out and has been able to position themselves with a team. They just go out there and do their gigs, write the songs, go out and perform to the best of their ability, tour and record. In that case their business would be handled by their team. There are a lot of artists out there like that. I wasn’t one of them. For some reason, I always want and need to know how things work. I was always interested in statistics and things of that nature from the time I was really small. When I was playing in bars in NJ, I was the one collecting money, going out and booking shows, dealing with the club owners and getting screwed over, getting taken advantage of as a 16-year old kid underage. What legs did I have to stand on? All I could do is stand there and be strong and respectful. It’s funny, because even while you’re getting screwed, sometimes as a kid, if you just stand tall and are not a dick, that reputation begins to follow you. People say, “He’s a good guy to work with and a good guy to deal with.” I always think regardless of what has happened I’ve been a pretty stand-up guy doing the right thing and have been good to people and treated people with respect and I have never taken myself too seriously. That fell into every project I worked on from the time I was playing in cover bands to the time I was starting Skid Row.
In the beginning it was more of the same; I was dealing with the club owner or dealing with a booking agent on a very local level. You still had to go through the business of it though and I liked doing that. As the business of Skid Row got bigger, my interest and participation in that also grew. And it was great because I had and have two amazing teachers in Doc McGhee and Scott McGhee. And also learning from John Bon Jovi and his work ethic, and the amount of knowledge he amassed and passed on to me. In that aspect, it helped me out immensely in that at least I understood what was going on around me, and I wasn’t in the dark. So I was able to make educated decisions. Whether I was right or wrong, at least I was able to be educated in where my decision came from.
I loved all that and still do. I think the progression from being in Skid Row to being in management was a very natural progression. The trick of it was, “How do you actually make that leap?” Luckily for me, the McGhees are my family and have been for the last 23 years. No matter what, the one thing I can say is that we’re not a corporate company and are more of a boutique management company- it’s a family atmosphere. I know and have always knows that if anybody is ever in trouble with anything, they can always come to me. And I know if I’m ever in trouble, I can always go to them. Doc and Scott have been there for me many times. There are so many other people that I’ve been fortunate enough to meet and get to know in this business who have been able to impart their knowledge and wisdom and experience upon me. I take all this as a gift and a blessing.
You do work with Down, who is the product of an older system. But you have a new project, Meghan Kabir. You were a part of the business when record labels were the only game in town. You were signed to Atlantic in 1988 at the height of the business. The metal scene was well established, it was before the alternative scene was built up and of course many years before digital changed everything. What are you doing with Meghan to make it work in this new climate that is different from what you had to do in the past?
SS:
The one thing I love that I think we’ve gotten back to in lieu of everything that has gone on with P2P file sharing is that we’ve gotten back to making sure every song is a great song. It used to be that way. In Skid Row we looked at it that way. Every song on that record had to mean something. It was that old stupid line “All killer, no filler.” The thing is, it’s very true now. Every song has to count, because people aren’t relegated to going out and spending $15 on a CD of ten songs where only two or three are good. The consumer has gotten smarter, and technology has given way to the fact that you have to make every song great in its own way. I love that. It’s the way it should be and the way it used to be. You used to buy a Zeppelin record, and every song on it was great, or at least good. Any artist that stood the test of time was that way – Aerosmith had great albums.
Now, that philosophy has been forced upon us again as artists and managers, and I love it. Things are different from a distribution standpoint, and you have to be creative, which I love. Necessity is the mother of invention, so for me it’s trying at times to figure out how to get your artist exposure and different ways to distribute the product in a manner that gives them the maximum amount of accessibility and availability. So, how do you do that in this day and age with a new artist when radio doesn’t mean as much as it used to and we have mostly big box retailers with very limited floor space? You have to figure out new ways to get the music out there, and it all starts with making sure the music is great. There are different ways of doing it, whether you release a single for an artist like we are doing for Meghan Kabir. The way we look at her is she has great songs with great melodies, and she’s a great performer. Our job is to make sure we give her every opportunity to be seen and heard because her music and her artistry deserves that.
What tools and promotion and marketing techniques do you deem are absolutely necessary today that may not have existed previously?
SS:
Dealing with Down and how we work their product and dealing with Meghan Kabir are in a lot of ways the same but in a lot of ways very different. The thing with Meghan is we want to spread out her releases over the course of 18 months. So three songs or four songs every four months. I’m saying this theoretically because it all depends on which songs we’re choosing and how much life they will have. She’s an artist that if it’s going to happen, she’s going to need support from radio. We want to build her fan base through modern rock radio. She has the ability, at least in our minds to cross over to Top 40. She’s unique in the sense that I think it’s been a long time since I’ve seen this amount of talent in such a young person. She is so driven and smart and keeps you on your toes. I was saying earlier, the one thing I love about Scott and I working with her is that if you don’t keep up with her, she is going to run you over. That’s the way it should be!
I believe gone is the day when an artist can lay back and let it happen. You have to be so much more involved in every aspect, but you have to trust the people you surround yourself with. That’s remained the same. You need to have a great core of people around you and allow them to do their gigs to the best of their ability. She’s on top of everything, and I’m inspired by that. She’s signed to Warner Brothers. One thing I’ve learned is that A&R and management and artists are always going to have disagreements, but I think they’re productive and valid in a lot of ways. At the end of the day if you’re working with people you trust and that you’ve known for a long time, I believe you’ll get to an endpoint where it makes sense to the artist. Meghan’s songs have the capability – though who knows in this day and age, because I just know what I love and what moves me, and I hope that translates to a mass audience.
Our theory is that if you start out going to Top 40, you live and die by each single. And today it is very much the case of “here today, gone tomorrow.” People like Paramour and P!nk, those people have done something that gives them longevity in their career because they’ve worked very hard to build up a loyal fan base and are not necessarily going to live or die by their next single. By the same token, you have to make sure the next song is great. That’s what I love about where we’re at right now.
I’m hearing a lot about a push at radio and releasing songs in a grouping as opposed to an album, which is smart because it gives the press more to talk about with each new batch of songs that comes out. What about the grassroots and the touring? What are you doing to ensure success if the first or second single misses?
SS:
I believe every artist has to build from a live standpoint. We want to be entertained and be able to go to a show and see these songs and be entertained. I still believe in real artists, artists that are not just about a song, but are great performers as well. I think everything needs to tie in together for someone to be successful on a long-term basis. Meghan has the goods, and we’re going to put her out on the road as much as we can, and she’s going to learn by that. She’s a very good performer now, but being a performer myself on many different stages, I don’t care how good someone is at 22. They’re going to be that much better at 23 and so forth. I know I was. You do that by going out and playing every place you can possibly play. That’s an old school mentality, but I still believe in it. You have to play the dives and build your persona and comfortability in front of an audience. She has that X-Factor that connects to people. Coming from Nashville, she isn’t a country artist, but she has people in that community respect her and go see her play and react to her songs.
Do you think technology has made it considerably more difficult for people to have time to practice. In theory I can go out to Guitar Center tomorrow, buy a guitar – “me” being not being “me” but “someone who’s never picked up an instrument before” – and plug into Garage Band, record a song and put it up o MySpace and have everything everywhere. Do you think technology has made it more difficult in some ways for artists to develop? If so, is there a workaround?
SS:
Technology is a blessing and a curse. What I loved about what happened when Skid Row was starting out is that you wouldn’t get signed to a deal until you rose above everything else that was out there. There was a brutal competition between bands and artists in the Tri-State area, and it was like that all across the country. We didn’t have the access to throw our stuff out there all over the Internet. We had tape trading. If you traded tapes, people would turn you down if they didn’t like it and pass it along if they did. It was this word of mouth thing that was happening that wasn’t out there contributing to so much damn noise, people had the choice of whether they wanted to pass that tape along or not. Now, technology is beautiful and I love it and utilize it, but there’s no gatekeepers to sit and say, “This stuff is good enough for people to hear.” I think people now have become lazy and generally don’t sit there and take the time and work their asses off and have people telling them, “No it’s not get enough” to help them raise their game and make it so they have worked hard enough and honed their craft enough where people need to hear this music and hopefully will respond to it in a positive light. That’s when the whole marketing machine would come into play back then.
Now, I’ve made records for 20-some years. But I could just sit there and throw anything I want up on the Internet no matter whether it sucks or is great. All that does is contribute to the noise pollution out there. Most artists throughout history were lucky enough to see people that have talent and nurture that talent, instead of just throwing stuff out there. John Hammond, one of the all-time great A&R people in this business who signed Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen and Stevie Ray Vaughan saw that these people needed time to nurture, and he helped them become the artists they would become because there was an inherent talent. Now I think people aren’t critical enough of themselves as artists starting out. We don’t sit there and just have people telling them, “No, this is not good enough yet, and it could be better.” When you don’t have a sounding board, I don’t know how you go from good to great.
That bums me out, because that work ethic I have was built through all those years of being in the shitty clubs in NJ and Philadelphia and New York City. You could tell if you were a good band or not, because people would be truthful. I’m not talking about the 20 friends that would come out that you would bring with you. It was the other people that didn’t know who you were. You could look a t their faces and know whether what you were doing was good enough. My story is a perfect example. When the five of us in Skid Row came together, myself and Rachel, Scotty, Sebastian and Rob, you could tell we were onto something. You get that feeling. I don’t know if that happens a lot anymore, because I don’t think there’s a standard that people have to adhere to. I’m not saying that from a major label standpoint at all, because I don’t believe you need to get signed to one. But I just don’t know if people work hard enough now at their craft and then finally get to a point where they say, “This is good enough where I could throw it out there in public and it will stand above everything else.”
Too much instant gratification?
SS:
We live in a fast food nation, unfortunately. The idea of “product development” has really gone by the wayside. I can’t say that about Meghan though and thankfully she has so much talent that it’s not an ass-ache, it’s a pleasure.
You spoke early on about many of the things you were taught along the way. What stands out as stuff you wish you’d known as an 18-year old kid just starting out on this journey?
SS:
In all honesty, I reflect on things pretty honestly with myself. I never looked at success as something that life and the world owed me. I looked at it (and still do look at it) as an absolute blessing and a gift. It has to do with being humble and being fortunate enough to have a modicum of success in this business. And I swear on my life I never took that for granted ever. That being said, I knew that at some point it was going to stop and go on the decline. It’s easy to have faith when things are good. Having faith in yourself is difficult when times are tough. I never lost faith in myself even when the band broke up, because I always believed there was something I had inherently that would allow me to stay in this business. That’s just from the fact that I believed in myself. I never thought I was the greatest guitar player or the greatest songwriter. I just always felt if I believed in myself I could be somewhat successful in this business. I’ve always maintained that attitude. It was easy to be happy when I was selling millions of records. They say that adversity builds character. But that’s B.S. Adversity reveals character. For me, I had the opportunity to see a lot of people’s characters revealed when things got very bad.
I was happy that my upbringing was such that I was raised to be a humble guy and to do the right thing and not be so egotistical that I believed the world owed me whatever good came my way. It’s always been a gift. To answer your question, I look back on it and think that everything that happened was the right way for it to happen to get to this point. I made a lot of mistakes along the way, no doubt. I compromised myself at times I shouldn’t have, etc. But at the end of the day, it is about the journey. I’m going to be going through this when I talk to you 20 years from now. I’m sure my experiences will be completely different, but my attitude will remain the same. Sure, I probably could’ve sold more records if I made different decisions or made more money, but I am a lucky guy. I get to work with people I love, I get to work with music I love and to be around people that are great people that I learn so much from. I’ve always been a sponge and I take every opportunity to learn whatever I can from whomever I can. A lot of people walk into a room with their chest and shoulders up and say, “Look at me,” but I walk into the room and I’m wide open to learn everything I can possibly learn from the people I’m with…
Follow Snake on Twitter or learn more about Mcghee Entertainment and Snake’s clients Down and Meghan Kabir.
In part six I went over the ups, downs, pros and cons of parents who manage their kids. This is lucky part seven, the last in a far too long and rambling series of articles about music management. In this last installment I will go over the manager / investor archetype.
“With Money Comes Compromise.”
I don’t know where I first heard that or if I am lifting a fairly famous quote without attribution (by all means call me on it in the comments section if I am) but this statement has never been more true than in the case of a manager who gets his or her gig with the band because of the ability to invest.
It is a funny thing about the music business – I have watched this same scenario play out time and time again where people who are successful in other industries take a look at the business, make a judgment on the people in the business and decide that they can do it better. What people either don’t know or seem willing to forget is that the music industry seems to function more like Roulette than anything taught in a Wharton MBA class and many of the rules that govern most other industries seem not to apply. The most obvious difference is that people are willing to invest millions and millions of dollars every year into products (read: music and artists) without knowing if there is any demand for these products. Thank God music still makes people feel something and makes them forget the bottom line though or we’d all be in trouble. Keeping that in mind there are some pros and cons about having a manager who becomes a music manager not based on their experience but because of their ability to fund a career.
Not to state the obvious but having some money to invest in your career is always a good thing and it is the Achilles heel of most artists (unless of course you are cynical in which case it is talent). If you are fortunate enough to find someone to invest in your career the first thing you need to do is to have a complete understanding of what this will cost you in terms of your back end. No one who is making an investment in art (if you have found someone who is just handing you cash then I have a sick father who needs an operation and a bridge I want to sell them) will do so without making a land grab for your future rights- it’s just the way the world works. This much is the same in any industry. It can be really difficult if you are eating cup of soup for dinner and dodging your landlord at the beginning of the month to turn down an investment of any kind regardless of the back end cost but I urge you to think of your career not in terms of one day, one week, one year but a lifetime. Is $50,000 worth giving away all of your publishing on anything you ever write for life? I hope not- but you never know. That said – just understand what you are relinquishing in exchange for investment today and if need be – spend some money on a good music lawyer.
As I have mentioned earlier – part of the problem with an investor in music is the distinct possibility that they won’t fully understand the business regardless of their successes in other industries. At times this kind of manager needs to be managed by the artist because the minute they begin spending any cash on someone’s career a whole host of people with questionable services will arrive like sharks who smell blood. While the cash is flowing it can be a fun ride but I assure you that investors will always look down the ledger on a project at some point and there had better be some signs of a return for the party to continue.
I’m sure many of you are scratching your heads and wondering if this is a common phenomenon. I didn’t think so either until recently trying to negotiate a client of mine on to a tour only to find out that there were dozens of offers from unsigned artists willing to pay for the privilege of opening up for a name brand artist. These people do exist and it does happen more often than I had once thought.
If you are lucky to have someone like this in your orbit just make sure you know what this investment will cost you in your possible future earnings and that you and this person have an understanding and share a common vision for your career otherwise you could wind up being a death metal group opening up for a Bee-Gees Tribute band if you aren’t careful.
That about does it on music management. I will be back to doing more interview content shortly. Have a great 4th of July, 10
Rick
Part five covered approaching established music managers. Part four went over the art of turning friends into managers. This section will be going over the pros and cons of parents who manage their children (Momagers and Dadagers)
Momagers and Dadagers – the upside to moms and dads who manager their musician progeny is that they really care a great deal about their client’s well being. The downside to moms and dads who manage their children is they REALLY CARE about their client’s well being.
I was at a dinner not too long ago with a celebrity publicist and an executive who produces Television shows. They were candidly discussing several of their past experiences and even some of their current experiences with high maintenance clients. The amount these two put up with from spoiled actors and musicians was astounding. Later, when the topic of parents who manage came up they both got a rather traumatic and distant look in their eyes and both said something to the effect of “Deal Breaker” or “No way – I can’t work with parents who manage”. All of this after several conversations about hellacious behavior they put up with on a daily basis.
Some parents who manage their kids are excellent especially when they want their child to be a musician because their child wants to be a musician. Things tend to get dicey if this push for a music career is coming from mom or dad making up for their missed opportunities in their own lives. Motivations aside, parents who manage are up against a rather large stereotype that can really work against them – I suppose we can thank Joe Jackson for being a pioneer in this field. Even a slight emotional outburst on a business issue from a momager or a dadager can get them branded as a crazed parent and can really put a damper on relationship building for the good of the project
I do understand their perspective. After all, no one will ever care as much about the artist as they will. Sadly, I have seen too many instances of parents being unwilling to relinquish the reigns of a project when they were clearly lacking the experience to adequately deal with what was happening around them. If you are a parent manager do keep in mind that you may know what’s best for your child but that doesn’t always translate into knowing what is best for your child’s career. Keep the grip loose moms and dads.
Remember that any help you can trust and you know will stand by their word is good help to have in music. In a pinch, parents are not the worst option for getting a project launched but (as with any other manager) proceed with caution and keep an open dialogue about your intentions and the possibilities of how things might change should your business grow.
Next time I will get to investors / managers – and that, the seventh and last article in this series will cover the topic of management for now. If you would like any other topics covered in this manner or have any feedback and / or suggestions for the site do drop me a line. I would really appreciate hearing from you.
Good weekend,
-Rick-
In Part four, I discussed some best practices for turning friends into managers on a trial basis. This option may not work for everyone though. Perhaps as much as you love your friends they can’t seem to get out of their way long enough to manage their own lives, let alone your career. It may be time to find your way into the office of a professional music manager. This, however, is often easier said than done.
Approaching a music manager should be thought of like approaching an investor with a start up company that you are looking to get funded. When trying to get someone to invest in a start up it is always easier to get people to contribute when a business has momentum and is well beyond the blueprint phases meaning it is either on it’s way towards being profitable or already profitable. It is essential that you have this in your consciousness when you approach someone to invest his or her time in your project. It is also essential that you have in mind exactly what your business selling points are above and beyond what your music sounds like – it’s very rarely enough that your music sounds great.
A great deal of being successful in your approach has to do with understanding the perspective of people on the industry side of the fence. It is about appreciating how overwhelming it can be to sit behind a desk where dreams go to die and how inundated successful music managers are with people who want something from them. Keeping this in mind here are some best practices in making an approach
1) Don’t go in cold:
If at all possible find someone who knows a music manager with a decent roster or another type of music executive who would be willing to make an introduction for you. Not at all a revolutionary idea but surprisingly one that is often overlooked. Begin to ask friends and acquaintances directly if they know people who work with music. It really doesn’t matter if it is your friend’s cousin’s roommate – something about being vouched for – even if it is 2-3 degrees of separation can really help create initial contact.
2) Present well:
This is a snippet of a real email I got recently from someone looking for help:
“i luv 2 sing , it is my world &ill never giv up. im already doin dis thing myself&i hav a guy dats a friend dat sing 2. im thinkn abt goin 2 college n persue my career @ da same time.wat shood i do 2 b well-kNown??”
Needless to say if your point of first contact is through email – use spell check. You aren’t texting a friend of yours drunk at some bar – you are trying to make valuable connections that will serve you in your music career for a long time to come. Whether first contact is spoken or written however – take baby steps. Your goal is to meet someone first – not to sign a management contract in perpetuity within the first 30 seconds. There are just too many aspiring musicians to respond to all of them when you are a manager or an executive with successful clients – they have to pick and choose who they pay attention to. My experience is that most people respond, even to cold calls or emails, if you present yourself well.
3) Be Specific and mention business accomplishments:
Write thoughtful and individually tailored emails to potential targets (Generic form letters often fall flat and also tend to reek of desperation). Why are you targeting this executive specifically? What did they do with their career or their client’s careers or who suggested you reach out? Give them business reasons to reach out to you – it’s not about “I’m the best singer in the world” it’s about – “I’ve got a mailing list of 1500 people or “my shows are selling out” or “I just did demos with a guy who worked with other artists you have heard of…”
4) Take it Slow & Provide Value
You could say - “I want you to manage me…” but every manager has different ways of working – the person you are approaching could be the complete wrong fit in spite of their successes with other clients. Saying this to a stranger is about as reasonable as proposing on a blind date prior to shaking someone’s hand.
You may be better served by saying “I’d love to buy you a cup of coffee and get your advice” or “I love what you did with the marketing plan on your client X and was curious if I could ask you a few questions…” or if you are really crafty come up with another compelling business reason that this executive could benefit from knowing you. Perhaps – “I would gladly do demos at my studio for some of your artists in exchange for some advice” or “I am connected to a bunch of artists and producers that you should probably know about or “I can help you promote shows locally”. These are all business reasons that I have watched artists use to further their relationships with executives. It may not be necessary to do so- but it is a good option and can help build relationships.
—-
Where does that leave you? Well – hopefully it leaves you-
I’ll be back soon for the next installment of the music manager series where I go over the investor / manager and momager and dadager phenomenon. If you missed it check out my interview with Music / Tour Manager Dave Lory from the New Music Seminar
In Part three- I was discussing the different types of managers. One could argue there are other archetypes and lots of people mix and match attributes from different groups but from my almost twenty years in music on both sides of the fence- these are the four basic types I have come across:
1) Friends and acquaintances turned managers
2) Professional music executives
3) Momagers and Dadagers
4) Investor / Managers
Let’s go over the friend turned manager option first as this is probably the most attainable type of manager. I have seen this scenario play out many times and can tell you that if you are not careful you can damage both your career and your friendships if this is done wrong so pay attention and be open and honest with your would be manager from day 1.
This person should be:
Identifying your friend the possible manager isn’t always that difficult – it is seeing them with unclouded eyes that can be the hard part. I urge you to go over the list above in your head with anyone you are considering. If it becomes obvious that your buddy who is supposed to help you load out after the show often disappears only to resurface days later asking to borrow money and wondering aloud what herpes look like – keep looking – this is probably not your manager.
Unless you are 100% sure that this person is the only person you want to manage you- I would suggest you have a conversation with the friend turned manager that you are going to do some kind of trial period to see how things work out with the professional relationship. In doing so you set up reasonable expectations for both sides and you schedule a date (the end of the trial period) to go over your working relationship. Another reason to set this relationship up as a trial arrangement is that it is not uncommon for bands to outgrow management. You have probably seen it your travels as well – the guy or gal who was great at making sure all the gear was packed up and that merch got sold started to be outclassed when questions like “How much should we ask for this Sync license?” or “What kind of door deal do most other acts of our size get?” started to arise.
Still, I am a believer in converting friends into managers if you are lucky enough to have hardworking friends who are eager to learn. People who are willing to do this kind of work for a fledgling artist, usually for free, are worth their weight in gold. There are many stories of very successful music managers who started out this exact way and, of course, there are plenty of stories about people like this who got blown out in favor of someone with more experience the minute things started heating up for the artist. I suggest you remember not to put 100% of your expectations on a manager of any kind to make things happen. Yes- they should be generating new business opportunities as well as managing your existing opportunities but it is also up to you to continue these business efforts as well.
Along those lines, don’t just hire someone and say “You’re our manager now”. I see this all the time and it drives me up a proverbial wall. If you are hiring someone and entrusting them to represent your artistic efforts when you are not around you had better have a very clear understanding of what you want from this person and please for the love of God don’t drop generic bullshit on them like “I want to get to the next level”.
The plan for your success has to start with you so instead of saying “we want to be big” or “we want to be successful” (as if anyone with half a brain was formulating a plan to ensure that you were doomed to failure in the garage) you should have a roadmap of the next few months that you can communicate. This is important no matter what kind of manager you have but especially with one who is rather new. If you are having trouble figuring out what you need to start with – here are a few of the standard artist build hurdles
To summarize – the friend turned manager is not a bad option provided that you
I will detail the approach on more established managers in the next installment. In the meantime check out this interview with an established music manager
This is the third article in the getting a music manager series. If you missed part one and part two you can check them out or you can be bold, hit hyperspace (if you weren’t a child of the 80’s it’s a reference to a video game called Defender) and dive right in to part three below.
Defender: This image has nothing to do with this article- I just find it amusing.
Some rehash of the past articles in this series:
Before approaching a would be manager make sure:
A side note – never forget that you are never “done”. In reference to some of the marketing materials above – It’s amazing to me how people will complete a recording or make a live video and act as if it is the only moment of their careers that mean anything. Media of this type is only a single still frame in the movie of your life. Every time you capture your art it is just a means to moving yourself further along and getting better at what you do as well as generating products that (hopefully) someone will want to purchase or at least take the time to appreciate.
But I digress, as I am wont to do.
Most music managers I’ve met have fallen into a few basic categories:
1) Friends and acquaintances that artists know and trust– preferably ones that are responsible, personable, business minded and willing to part with their time because they believe in you. You know that guy who is just always around you at shows and in the studio that everyone knows and likes? That guy.
2) Professional music executives – people who do music management full time or do music business related work for a living and have connections, experience and leverage that make them able to help aspiring artists.
3) Momagers and Dadagers
4) Wealthy individuals who love music and want to be in the music business for any number of reasons. Maybe no one CC’d them on the memo that it isn’t as sexy as it seems. Let’s just call them investors / managers.
I’m a big fan of archetypes 1 & 2 and I will get into that in the next installment. I promise – I’ll stop with all of the set up and get to the point… It’s not really my fault though – my research says you all want shorter articles (shrug).
While waiting for the next article please enjoy the picture below of a smoking Monkey. If that doesn’t do it for you read this great article by one of my favorite metal managers.
If you want to see what I mean about bands and their need to pose in front of brick walls check out this cruel but hysterical site
Ted Cohen has had a long and colorful career in the music business. He started out managing artists in high school and putting on shows in college, worked in Artist Development at Warner Brothers and worked with artist such as Prince, Van Halen and Fleetwood Mac (among many others). His interest in technology and music led him to become SVP of Digital Development at EMI Music, which meant it was his job to source out what new technologies could be used by the company to help break their artists. In 2006 Ted left EMI to start his own company TAG strategic. TAG is a company that consults technology companies on how best to use media and content to their advantage. Ted recently began managing an artist named Sara Haze and upon hearing this I knew I had to ask him some questions about what his plans were for breaking Sara given the tools that were likely to be available to him.
Ted, thanks for your time. With TAG Strategic being the kind of entertainment and technology based firm that it is and you being a guy that has an interesting world view because of your background tell me a bit about your career and why / how you started managing Sara?
TC:
It brings me around full circle. I started out managing bands in high school. To date myself, I managed Eric Carmen, who was a member of the Raspberries. I managed his band in high school, which was known at the time as the Sounds of Silence. I started out with the fun of figuring out how you get a band discovered and build a career. Then I ended up at Warner Brothers in artist development helping bands like Talking Heads, Van Halen and Prince, who are now all household names, but were at the time what I refer to as “station wagon tours.” The first Van Halen tour was a station wagon tour, then it moved to a tour bus, then it moved to a plane. It was the same thing with Fleetwood Mac and Talking Heads. You think of Fleetwood Mac as this major, major act. I remember driving across Pennsylvania through Maryland into New York with them with two station wagons and an equipment truck. That led into getting involved in technology in the late 80’s and seeing that through to the mid 90’s. And then I got back into working with music as it related to technology.
In 1991, I managed a rock artist, David Robyn. I worked with David for about two years until the band broke up. David was a really good songwriter and performer, and we stayed friends over the years. That was literally about 17 years ago, and last year at Canadian Music Week in Toronto, which is a great conference I go to every year, I came up behind this girl playing piano. She sounded amazing, and I stood there for two or three minutes listening to her. She was on the piano bench, and there was a guy sitting next to her playing acoustic guitar and singing harmony with her. I walked around the front of the piano to see what she looked like, and sitting next to her was David, my former client. He started saying, “This is Sara! This is who I’ve been telling you about!” And I said, “Wow,” she was brilliant. He called me a few weeks later, and asked if I would come out to see her. I went to see her a couple times and thought she was really, really good. David asked me to get involved, I quickly agreed. We started working together. I was going to do the digital side of her career. It became clear by early April that while there was a lot of interest from labels – there were serious discussions from Universal, Warner Music Group – nothing was going to close before mid-year 2009.
We came to the realization that if we didn’t get a deal in place by the First of July, we probably weren’t going to get any music out this year. So Sara, Dave and I made a mutual decision that if July 1 came and went and there wasn’t a signed deal to get a record out by October, we would do it ourselves. We hit the ground running!
Over the years – I’ve worked at Warner Records, I worked for the legendary artist manager Sandy Gallin, who managed Neil Diamond, Michael Jackson, the Osmonds and the Pointer Sisters, among others, and I worked Philips Electronics. This gave me experience at a label, in management and technology. David had been an artist, a songwriter and had worked with other acts; he has a great work ethic. We started planning for the November 3rd release, and we decided to go digital-only through the end of the year. We’re going to put out a physical release sometime in early January or February. We’re working with all the online services – Amazon and iTunes, etc. – so the music is out there. We found a great digital distributor by the name of BFM, which stands for Big Fish Media, led by a guy named Steve Corn, who is an old friend that stepped up and thrown a lot of resources into making this happen. We’re into the first week. I have 3700 friends on Facebook and posted last week that the music was up and available. I got back dozens of replies from friends that had gone to her site and listened to it. They’re hearing what I’ve been hearing from the first time I heard her. She’s an amazing artist. And for me, it really does give me the opportunity to put my actions where my mouth has been for the last ten years, that we’ve been coming to this tipping point where you don’t need to have a major label, provided you have the right resources, use what’s out there and have the right team.
As an executive who has met with and evaluated so many technologies, what are some of the staples in artist development in your opinion?
TC:
Initially, a company called TheVirtualCD.com. I met with Mitch Tobin who runs the service in New York, and he showed me everything they were doing. It’s a great tool. We are also working with Ian Rogers’ new company Top Spin, ReverbNation, Ariel Hyatt- the best digital publicist in the world and, as I stated, we are working with Big Fish Digital.
There are a few other companies we haven’t announced yet that we’re doing business with. I’m basically either calling in every consideration that I have from companies that I’ve worked with for years, or creating new indebtedness with everyone I know and saying, “The music is there. I’m looking for your attention.” If the music was weak, I would say I was asking for favors, but the music is good and speaks for itself. Now we’re in a world where thousands of new songs come out daily. We have this great level playing field now. Anyone can get distribution. We could take this call that you’ve recorded and post it on iTunes, make it for sale as a Podcast and people would buy it. But you and I would have to promote it; otherwise it would just sit there as a podcast in the iTunes catalogue. The challenge these days is not about getting distribution. It’s about letting people know your music is out there and rising above this great level playing field that’s been created.
Talent aside, what is your advice for an upcoming artist trying to rise up?
TC:
You have to be everywhere. As an example, there’s another artist I probably will be working with named Emily Jaye that David is also managing. I went to see Sara one night at a club in L.A. called the Mint, and Emily was opening for her. She had a lot of great songs, but one was, “I’m not a bitch, I just don’t like you.” The lyric is great, and it catches you right away. We were passing around a mailing list, so I put my name on the mailing list. The next morning at eight or nine o’clock in the morning, I got an e-mail from Emily saying, “Thanks for joining my list.” It wouldn’t have meant as much a week later. Getting it at nine the next morning after I’d been at breakfast telling someone about being there the night before made a big difference, and I became a big fan. It’s not just about collecting e-mails. I was impressed with her work ethic. She was very talented on stage, but she was also making a big effort to build her band list up and make contact. I get e-mails from her at least two or three times a week. It rises above the noise. She got me to notice her.
There are a lot of DIY or self-help tools out there. Ian Rogers has done a great thing with Top Spin giving ways to build up your following using digital tools. Ariel Hyatt with Cyber PR has a book and a whole process on her website to help you build up you profile.
The interesting thing for most artists these days – it’s fun to watch – is you run out of people to blame. The artist used to say, “I did really well, but my manager blew it” or “I did really well, but my label blew it.” Most times now the independent artist is their own manager and their own label. When it gets screwed up, you need to have a mirror in front of you. You have all these opportunities and this ability to get noticed. Take advantage of it. I feel the pressure every day, because opportunities come up, and I have somebody that wrote me last night about something this morning. Luckily he gave me an out, and he said, “We can either do it tomorrow or Tuesday, let me know.” There is pressure not to squander opportunity. Getting back to people right away, managing your mailing list, capitalizing on your mailing list, finding that balance between too much information and maintaining that contact that your fans know you care about them. It’s an honest relationship.
I did a Twitter panel a few months ago in New York with a rap artist Jim Jones, who was talking about another artist and how he had abused his Twitter following by acquiring 300,000-400,000 people to follow him on Twitter. He started using Twitter to say, “Buy my record” and “Vote for me on E-Bay.” Every call to action was, “Have you bought my record?” and “Have you done such and such?” People started dropping off in massive quantities because he violated the relationship between him and his fan base.
Look at all the tools that are out there, use the ones that help you maintain an organic, honest interaction with your fans, listen to your fans’ feedback, reward them where you can. We’re doing a promotion with Sara beginning soon called, “30 Days of Sara Haze.” Most of the prizing is not your traditional record company prizes for contests. The content is event oriented – go bowling with Sara, have Thanksgiving dinner with Sara, attend a webcast, watch a webcam in the dressing room at her date next week, etc. It’s going to create virtual experiences.
When do you think an artist is ready to give of themselves in that way to a fan base?
TC:
I think you do it early on. You try to have as much contact with your fans as possible and invite some of them to a sound check or an after show. The challenge is when you give people real access as opposed to virtual access, you have to make sure you know who you’re dealing with. In most cases, your fans are just fans and nothing more. One of the realities of social media is that when someone is your friend on Facebook, sometimes that person believes they’re really your friend as opposed to someone that is part of your world or just an acquaintance. I have that in my personal life. You try to be a little discerning about it, but when it comes to fans on your Facebook or Myspace page, you have to make things available to them and every once in a while doing select things that connect with your audience in the physical world while still being careful.
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Learn more about Ted and his Company TAG Strategic or check out his management client, Sara Haze.
