This site is a blog for musicians and music industry people. It is a free educational resource and it is also the way I advertise my music consulting services. I am an entertainment professional with deep roots in the music industry. Throughout my music career I have been a major label A&R representative, a music supervisor, an artist manager, a reality show producer, a bass player and the head of a digital record label.
Fred Pessaro is a contributing editor at the popular New York City-based music blog BrooklynVegan. Originally from Washington, D.C., Fred got his start in the music industry as a fan of hardcore and punk music and started regularly attending local shows in his hometown at an early age. His interest in freelance writer and photography and his love for music brought him to New York City, where he began to write for and contribute photos to music publications including Fuse, Time Out and Decibel. He has been working with BrooklynVegan since 2007 and is also responsible for booking metal and punk shows sponsored by the blog in the New York City area.
Recently, I had a chance to sit down and chat with Fred about his role at BrooklynVegan and some tips he has for artists that want to get the attention of music publications and get their music out there.
How did you first get started in the music industry?
FP:
I mostly got into it as a fan. I started going to hardcore shows when I was younger. I’ve been into it since I was little. Hardcore and punk rock always affected me, and then as I got older, I started to do some freelance writing. I eventually moved up here from D.C. and started writing for a bunch of different music publications.
When everyone else was listening to Skid Row, I was discovering the Bad Brains and Ian MacKaye awfully late.
FP:
I grew up in that hardcore era of Fugazi. I always did stuff related to music, but it wasn’t until I moved here that I started doing freelance stuff. I did some writing for Fuse and Time Out and had some photos in Decibel and The Aquarian. I was doing BrooklynVegan too, and it eventually became a full-time thing.
Can you describe a little bit more about how BrooklynVegan and your role there came to be? At this point, I know the site is getting 100,000 uniques per month.
FP:
I’m one of the editors of BrooklynVegan, and I do hip hop and metal and punk rock and a good amount of the indie as well. It was started by a colleague of mine. He started in 2004, and I joined on in 2007. I’ve been there longer than anyone else besides him.
A few years in, you’ve clearly contributed to growing an enormous brand in music journalism. To what to you attribute the success?
FP:
I think part of it is moving quickly. Part of it is just instincts and knowing what you like, and knowing what works and what doesn’t work. I think those are the most important things. And you have to be on top of it 24/7, and I feel like I am. It obviously takes a lot less schooling, but it’s kind of like being a doctor. You’re always on call, there’s always something going on, and you have to be prepared for anything. For instance, let’s say for the sake of argument, you and I are talking right now, and Bob Dylan dies. I have to be ready to pull something together quickly. I have to be checking my phone all the time and paying attention to news, etc.
Covering all of music is certainly a big task. And you also do a lot of photography for BrooklynVegan as well, right?
FP:
Yes. I probably shoot at least one show per week. A lot of times I’ll do more than that. In addition, I also book a good number of metal and punk rock shows in the New York area. Those fall under the BrooklynVegan banner also.
I’m sure a lot of musicians hear you get a lot of traffic or already know you are a prominent music blog and think, “I want to be on the cover.” Is there an approach you’ve seen multiple times from different musicians that either rubs you the wrong way or is simply ineffective?
FP:
I think one thing about me and about BrooklynVegan in general is that our mailbox is our battlefield, as I think is the case for most people in music. I tend to get a lot of press releases. I think a lot of musicians and other people have a tendency to think, “Press releases is where you get all your information.” I don’t really get information from press releases. But I think if you’re going to be a good news organization ad know what’s going on, you have to be ahead of the press release. You have to know what’s coming up, and to me, a press release should be a validation of what you’ve already done. A lot of times, people send multiple emails to me saying, “Have you seen this yet? Have you done this yet?” Unfortunately, I can’t respond to every single thing that comes to me, because it’s a large task.
Sometimes people find my email and email me directly. That’s nice and all, but at the same time, the chances of me finding that personal email is kind of hard, because my inbox is so big. A lot of times, because of the massive amounts of emails and promos I get, the thing that helps the most is to have a product that’s going to stand out. If you’re going to hand me a promo, make sure it’s a promo I’m going to remember and not just a CD in a jewel case or something similar. There have been many times I’ve gotten something like that, and then I put it in my bag and forgot about it. And then a week later, I realized, “Oh yeah. There was this great band I wanted to listen to.” But I just forgot it was in there because it didn’t stand out to me at that moment.
Can you cite an example of something that did stand out?
FP:
Here’s a great example. I know these guys well now, but there’s a label called Seventh Rule Recordings. The guy who runs it sent out demos of his band Millions. Instead of giving me a CD, he took a 5 1/4-inch floppy disk an ran a razor blade across the top of it and put the CD inside it. So, it looked like he was giving me a floppy disk from the 80s, but there was music inside it. When I see that, the first thing I think is, “Wow. This is so creative. The music is probably interesting too.” That’s the kind of thing I look for, and I think it’s an important thing for musicians to do. There are so many bands, and I get so many one-sheets that say, “Sounds like Animal Collective” or “Sounds like Coldplay, Broken Social Scene, or My Morning Jacket,’ etc., etc. That’s all well and good, and it’s fine if you want to sound like something else. But I think what attracts me the most is something that’s different and forward thinking and creative. That’s one of the reasons that disk in particular was really cool. I thought, “Someone that cares this much about their packaging is probably going to care this much about their art.”
You mentioned that you don’t necessarily get your information from press releases. I realize you’re a guy who is very much in the mix with a lot of peers and probably a lot of people you know who are out as much or even more than you are to source stories. Where do you get stories from artists? And are there other sources you think are essential for young bands to know about that can help get them noticed before they are at a stage where they can go to a larger music blog like yours?
FP:
I just had a conversation with someone the other day about this. I’m old school, so when I grew up listening to hardcore – and I still apply this concept today, and I think it works really well with any kind of music – the way I learned about music was by going to a show and seeing a band I loved. This band may have been on X label, and I would say, “I respect that label. I think that label puts out consistent material. I’m going to look and see what this is about.” Or, I would say, “Oh, look. That band is wearing this other band’s t-shirt. I think he’s a great guitar player, and he speaks to me. I’m going to check out this other band.” I’ve always approached things in that old school, punk rock way.
It seems you’re saying it’s really the association from musician to musician, and that the organizations around them are much more important than some people might think.
FP:
I think that’s important. But one of the things I also think is important is just getting out there and playing. People who just get out there and play as much as they can do well. For instance, I book a lot of metal shows in the city, and I notice who plays a lot. Any band that plays a lot, whether it’s the first band, the second band or are in some other position on the bill probably has a strong work ethic. Any band that will play anywhere, at any time is probably a band that really wants to work. And it’s probably a band that, even if it’s not good now, will have the work ethic to be good later on.
Do you have any parting advice for musicians trying to get noticed in an age where there are just so many bands and so many blogs? Is there one good strategy?
FP:
I think if you’re a young band today, the best thing you can do is put together a record and give it away for free. Let as many people hear it as possible. I think that’s important on the recorded front and the live front. Any time someone asks you to play a show, you should take it. If you’re a Twee band, and someone asks you to open for a metal band, play it anyway. If you’re playing first on a 12-band bill at 3 p.m., play it anyway. At the end of the day, playing the show is important, whether there are five people there or 5,000 people there. But it’s also important that your name is on a show, and your name is repeated as many times as it can be repeated. If I were a young band, I would play anywhere and everywhere as often as I could, and I would give away my music to anyone that would hear it. Also, maybe you can do something like print up t-shirts with a catchy design that someone might wear whether they liked your band or not. And sell them at cost. Basically, the more times someone sees your name, the easier it’s going to be for them to recognize it down the road. It’s the idea of conditioning. The more times you mention a name, the more the name will become a part of everyone’s consciousness as opposed to “just another band out there.”
To sum it up, play as much as you can, record as much as you can and give it all away for free until you think people are listening, and then you can draw back on part of that.
To learn more about Fred Pessaro and read about some of the bands and events he’s covered, visit the BrooklynVegan website.
Amy Meyer is a music publicist and the owner of Meyer PR, where she works with a small and diverse roster of artists, including hip hop artist Sam Adams, Xavier Rudd and the up-and-coming band Oh Darling. She began her career in the music business at nineteen years old when she landed an internship in Business/Legal affairs at Interscope Records. She quickly moved into the Sales/Marketing department where she learned from some of the industry’s leading executives. After leaving Interscope, she worked as an assistant for a famous Japanese musician and producer where she had a behind-the-scenes look at an artist’s life as well as how to run his recording studio. After some time in the advertising department at Warner Bros. Records, Amy moved onto Elektra Entertainment, where she worked with an eclectic mix of major artists such as Metallica, ACDC, Third Eye Blind, Pantera, Missy Elliot, Busta Rhymes and The Old 97s. It was there she settled into her career path as a music publicist, and went to work for d.baron Media Relations, a high-end independent publicity firm based out of Santa Monica, CA specializing in public relations for many Latin crossover artists, including Enrique Iglesias and Shakira. She branched out on her own in 2002 and started Meyer Public Relations. During this time, she also was a member of a small but passionate team that ran independent record label, Ironworks Music, owned by Jude Cole and Kiefer Sutherland. She was a key player in the label’s growth and also took on management duties for two of the label’s artists.
I recently had the opportunity to sit down with Amy and talk about how she developed a passion for music PR, how she works with musicians to build their image, and how artists just starting out can get press themselves before they are ready to hire a music publicist.
Thanks for taking some time to talk to me today, Amy. How did you first make the transition into music PR?
AM:
After working at Warner Bros., I pretty much decided to make a complete switch to the opposite of advertising. When I was working in advertising, the publications pursued us. As a publicist at Elektra, I was basically wooing and begging the publications to cover my artists. I started as a tour publicist, so I did mainly regional tour press for a bevy of artists, all different genres. When I first started working as a publicist, I honestly didn’t even know what a publicist did. Someone took a chance on me, and I got a great job, and just fell into it naturally, so I stuck with it.
And how did you make the decision to start your own PR company?
AM:
I actually didn’t know I was going to do it. I left d.baron Media, and was at home and had a lot of clients I’d worked with in the past or who had known of me from other campaigns I’d done, and I started getting offers. I’ve now been on my own for about eight years. I feel very fortunate that I’ve had that. I’ve gone back and forth between wanting to be on my own and wanting to have someone here to help me so my company could grow. But I’ve decided I really like what I have. I’ve been lucky enough to be able to be selective and only work with musicians and teams that I love.
So, you started at a big label, moved onto a smaller boutique PR agency and then went out on your own to work with large independents. How has publicity changed since you’ve gotten smaller and smaller and closer and closer to DIY methodology?
AM:
It’s vastly different from where I started in publicity, and I prefer it this way. I enjoy being a part of an artist’s development phase. This indie-minded world works for me, because it allows me to be a part of an artist’s career from the beginning.
What does your job entail?
AM:
I like that I can tailor my job to each campaign. Normally, I’m one of the first people on a project, so there isn’t a separate online media person or video person yet. When I take on a project what I like is helping an artist tell their story, either by creating a bio or tailoring the bio they have to better represent what they’re about. A lot of people don’t realize when you come out of the gate, whatever you come out with will stick with you for the rest of your career. In helping an artist tell their story, I make sure they understand the elements they put together now will be the things journalists will always ask them. As an artist, you need to be able to want to talk about these things. In the beginning, I usually give some media training to explain all that to an artist. I see my job as helping the process of building an image and telling a story from the beginning to the camera-ready presentation to the world, whether that’s print media, online, television or anything else.
What are some of the common mistakes people make when they don’t have media training?
AM:
The most common problem is not thinking through their response and not having a genuinely thoughtful answer. I try to make artists realize that their words will extend beyond the conversation they’re having with a writer and it’s important to consider the question before responding.
And how do you train someone to be thoughtful?
AM:
With most artists you can pull together the top ten questions they’ll be asked over and over again. If we cover those questions while giving them time to think through their answers, then they will always have their go-to responses. Luckily enough, these are creative people, so they’ll be able to switch up their answers a little bit each time, so they can make it more exciting for each interview. As an artist, if you have those bases covered, it frees you up for the occasional question that’s outside the box. You can take a moment to think about it. With my clients, I do email interview tests with them. Sometimes if they need it, we’ll also do video interviews so they see themselves and how they respond. Ultimately, it’s about teaching them that they have to be aware of what they’re presenting to the world.
What are some of the questions most artists are going to be asked at some point or another?
AM:
Most people ask about the band name, how the band met, how they got into music, who they think they sound like – which makes most artists cringe – and then what their musical background is. They also often ask what the artist’s or band’s top favorite artists are. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had an artist finish an interview and come back and say, “They asked me what my favorite musicians are, and I said the wrong thing.” That’s often the thing they are most sensitive about. They want me to call back and give an updated list. If you go in knowing your go-to answers – which are genuine answers – it’s just about being ready to deliver them on the spot and being consistent.
So, it’s just a little bit of rehearsal before the show.
When you’re an artist, there are a lot of pitfalls involved with doing your own press or even hiring someone you don’t know directly. What else should people be aware of when doing their own press or hiring a publicist for the first time?
AM:
I think the best thing is to know what your goals are, and what you want out of it, other than getting into Rolling Stone. You have to be realistic and aware that people at magazines and websites and any outlet are very limited with the space they have. They’re being pitched by tons of publicists every day on multiple projects. You really have to be on the same page as your publicist about what you want to get out of it. You want to hire someone that specializes in what you do and that has the time to really focus. I think a big mistake a lot of publicists make is taking on too many things. Choosing your publicist wisely as an artist is knowing who you’re hiring, the kind of time they have for you/that they will make you a priority and that you will both have the same expectations. As a publicist, my job is never done. There’s always another outlet, someone else to pitch, someone else to follow up with, especially in the online world. It’s endless. Knowing you have someone that is really going to work for you and with whom you have the same goals is really important and will make you a good team.
I find a lot of artists come to me and say, “I have this new record. Get it written about.” My whole thing is, in 2011, an artist or a band releasing a record is not newsworthy in and of itself. There are too many. Which exercises do you have your artists go through when you’re trying to help pull a story out of them? How do you help people find their unique story?
AM:
That’s really why I actually enjoy writing bios or creating bios for my artists in the beginning. It’s the same questions I would ask down the line. Everyone is unique and everybody has a different story. Sometimes people, especially musicians, just don’t know what sets them apart. Most musicians think, “My music should sell it.” But you have to have something else to make people even open their ears to your music. I would like to say to everybody that it’s a record that makes all that happen, but it really is the story. I talk to them and learn about them. I listen to my artists’ interviews even in the beginning, because I learn about their hobbies, how they grew up, even their thought processes. You have to be really creative these days. It’s about finding out the little things and creating stories about those things. I probably drive them crazy, because I ask them so many questions.
A lot of the folks reading this are at a stage where they are not ready or able to hire a publicist. What advice would you give them in helping determine their uniqueness and their story?
AM:
I think it’s really about taking a good look at yourself. If you’re a band, look at the individuals and also what sets you apart as a whole. It might be your history. It might mean you come up with creative ways to do things on your website to create a fan base. If you don’t think you have anything that sets you apart, you can really create whatever you want. That might be creating a unique online presence or doing funny skits. It depends on what you want to put forth in the world. It’s a matter of looking at yourself as people and how you got to where you are now and what your end goal is.
Any other parting words of advice for artists?
AM:
I want to put one more thing out there. I get approached a lot by musicians that I think are musically ready but don’t have the funding to hire me. If I weren’t running a business, I’d probably have tons of “favor” projects. But as an artist, if you’re not ready on the financial side, there are so many things you can do on your own in the beginning. Every website has a contact section. I would shoot for a lot of the smaller ones in the beginning. A lot of bands can do some of that on their own, but they have to be willing to work. I think a lot of people forget that, even when they hire someone. They think when they hire someone, the work is done on their part. But it’s a team effort. Even before you get a publicist, the more work you do, the further you’ll go. And you’ll increase your value before you get to the point of hiring someone. Be realistic and look to like-minded artists. See what they’ve done and which websites cover them, and appeal to those. Create a page online with your music, on whichever platform you want and try that avenue on your own. You can do it in the beginning.
Do you have any advice for approaching those folks if you’re not with a publicist?
AM:
I’m not talking about going to the big print magazines or websites. Some of the bloggers or music websites pride themselves on finding music early. Sometimes they’d prefer to get it from the artist rather than getting it pitched to them by a publicist. There’s an openness there. If you show you have music and are doing the work behind it, and that you have a mini bio on your own and have it together; and if you show you have shows going on in your area, I think people are going to be really open to you.
In your experience, is personalizing each email the best route to take?
AM:
Absolutely. You need to know who you’re reaching out to. Even with people that I have worked with for years in the media I still go and take a look at what they are currently covering before I reach out. It’s a good conversation piece. You talk about a piece the writer has done, and the person knows you’re going to them because you saw they like a certain artist that plays music similar to yours. The thoughtfulness that goes into that will go a long way.
To learn more about Amy Meyer, you can keep up with her on Twitter.
Pam Workman-Hilton is the Founder of Workman Entertainment and PR. Since childhood, Pam has been passionate about music, literature and the performing arts, but also very inspired the ideas behind business and entrepreneurialism. She first entered the music industry when she got an internship at MTV while pursuing a masters in journalism at New York University. This first internship deepened her interest in the music industry and led her to a second internship at VH1, which turned into a job in creative development and programming during VH1’s big “Music First” era in the mid-1990s. There, she was introduced to manager Bob Doyle (Garth Brooks) and his client, the renowned songwriter Billy Mann (Hall & Oates, Jessica Simpson, P!nk). She left VH1 to work with Bob as a management associate, eventually rising up in the ranks to creatively and administratively run his New York office.
When the bottom of the music industry as it had been previously been known began to fall out in 2000 because of the growing digital industry, Pam moved into the next phase of her career as a publicist. Thanks to her interest in technology and her vast experience on both the creative side and the business side of music, she has grown into a highly-specialized publicist who focuses on corporate music and music technology PR. With her own New York City-based company Workman Entertainment and PR, she now helps individuals in both corporate and entertainment arenas leverage modern media tools to build their brands and develop their careers. Most recently, she has worked with artists and entrepreneurs such as Eminem, Russell Simmons and Echo and the Bunnymen and also works closely with the New Music Seminar.
Pam spoke to me recently about her life as a publicist, the upcoming New Music Seminar and how artists can build their personal stories and their careers in a changing, digitally-driven world.
I want to ask you a little bit about your world view given you do a lot of events PR and corporate PR, although in many respects, the philosophy and underpinning is not that vastly different from what artists have to do to get noticed. Do you see your job as a publicist as helping pull a story from your clients and repackaging it? How do you look at your role?
PWH:
I look at my role as one that fits into all the crevices that aren’t being filled at any given time with any client, whether I am working with an indie band, a major label artist, a music technology startup or a national music organization. Granted, the larger organizations often have more infrastructure. But that’s not necessarily bulletproof in the sense of what one needs to be successful as a publicist. To be more specific, it’s not a cookie-cutter job. And I don’t believe anyone’s job in the music industry should be now. All of us have to be very creative and dynamic in terms of the services we offer and the skill sets we provide to the music community. The demands upon artists and companies to be successful are no longer linear. It’s this composite of things. For example, with an artist’s campaign, it’s not just “We have the radio in play, and you’re the publicist, and here’s the product manager.”
I remember the days where we would go about and there was just a cut and paste process. It doesn’t seem like there’s a specific process to an artist’s PR and Marketing campaign anymore.
PWH:
My point is that because there often isn’t a process, the team may be leaner, and the job may be bigger. I do traditional PR, and yes, my job is to get the story of the band, artist or company. But sometimes they don’t even know their story. Sometimes neither does their manager or label. It depends where they are in their career. And sometimes that story needs to be refreshed or reexamined. I think this is very 101, and I’m sure you’ve heard this many times, but having a great record does not a story make.
The line I always come back to is that “Dude Releases Record” is no longer newsworthy.
PWH:
That definitely sums it up.
What would you advise people that are looking for publicists or who are just saying, “I should do some blog outreach?” Is there an exercise or a process?
PWH:
Yes and no. I personally would advise any young artist or even mid-career artist, or anyone I work with to look for the unconventional opportunities. To me, getting a blog placement is fine. But getting involved with a charity you care about and being passionate about it and maybe getting the opportunity to perform at a charity event because you’re involved and you care, and then having your fans know you care about something other than your music starts to build a story about who you are.
I often advise people also that their music is unfortunately, or fortunately only one dimension. When you’re forced into a situation where you’re constantly generating some content or pitching to a niche, it involves living your passions as well.
PWH:
I guess we’re on the same page in the sense that I don’t want to say, “Don’t go after a blog hit.” And I think a blog would be more interested in a new band if they were doing something other than releasing their EP. I think identity is also really important. What’s your unique offering? And I don’t just mean the sound, but also visually, or literally “What do you have to say that’s different or fresh?” Maybe you’re from Hawaii and you spent your life surfing. To New Yorkers, that’s kind of different. I guess that’s why Jack Johnson is hip.
As marketing executives we all want the Jack Johnson story: “By the way, is there anything you do?” “Oh, yeah. I’ve been producing documentaries on the most famous surfers in the world for ten years. Does that help?”
PWH:
Right. You do have to start from somewhere. I think the people that are passionate about life and have things going on or are doing things beyond the realm of just putting a record out are at ground zero for the beginning of PR.
I’m going to switch gears on you a little bit. Tell me about what you’re doing for the New Music Seminar. As somebody that has that unique position to interact with all the panelists in a PR capacity, what are you noticing about the trends for the business? What have been some of your greatest takeaways about the changing music business?
PWH:
One of the first things that strikes me is that the story is still being written: the new business story. We’re in the middle of actually writing it. What’s exciting about the New Music Seminar (NMS) is that when you’re on the ground and experiencing it, you actually feel that happening. That is truly the unique takeaway that not only I get from the seminar, but that I think anyone who goes would likely get also. There is no pat answer today, so I think if you are excited by being a part of the solution and the conversation, the NMS is a very exciting place to be, whether you’re an artist, entrepreneur or an executive.
The other takeaway is simply that it’s a very exciting environment right now in that there are all kinds of new technologies and services that are being introduced, many of them at NMS. I don’t think any one of them will save the music business, but I do think there will ultimately be some composite of these services and this world that we’re learning about right now that will help us, if not succeed, definitely survive. Without them, I think we’ll see the value of copyrights continue to devolve, and I think the monetary solutions we’re currently attached to won’t grow, even on the digital side. There was a recent story in The New York Times that said we’re flat-lining in the digital world. I think all those things, if you’re an industry person, are cause for alarm. But if you’re an artist, it’s also concerning, because you want to know how to be heard, how to survive and how to make it work as a professional. I do think certainly that NMS will be educational to any artist that actually wants to understand what it will take to make music a career. Whether or not they can do it is a different story.
What’s refreshing to me about the seminar’s stance to me is that it doesn’t sound that anyone is saying, “We have the answers.” It sounds like you’re coming from a place of, “Here are some of the brightest people we know. We’re all trying to figure this out. Come and help us.” That’s the interesting thing to me.
PWH:
That’s definitely the most interesting thing to me too, and I think when I talk about the energy and the dynamic, that’s exactly where it comes from. You feel like you’re a part of making that a reality in action.
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You can learn more about Pam, her business and her roster of clients on the Workman Entertainment and PR website.
The New Music Seminar is coming up in L.A. February 14th-16th, 2011 in L.A.
Also, for the complete schedule of events at this year’s New Music Seminar and to register visit www.NewMusicSeminar.com. Use the 2 for 1 discount code by entering the secret code NMSLASE2322 when you select the Partner’s Discount tab on the registration page. You don’t want to miss this opportunity to take your career to the next level.
Jonathan Cargill is a partner in the Labels Jagjaguwar, Secretly Canadian, Dead Oceans and the companies Bellwether Manufacturing and SC Distribution. He makes management decisions for all of these companies but his areas of expertise are publicity and music licensing / placement. Jonathan and his partners have had a great deal of success of late with artists like Bon Iver, Black Mountain, Okkervil River and Antony and the Johnsons.
First of all – tell me how you got into the business and wound up running all these different companies?
JC:
I knew I was going to be involved with music. I thought I was going to be a rock star, but I definitely learned very early that I wasn’t going to be a rock star. I was managing a cafeteria at a university dormitory, and one of my employees – someone I had connected with and who had similar musical tastes and career aspirations – ended up being my partner Chris Swanson. After talking for at least a year, we decided, “Let’s just jump in and do this.” So he called upon his brother, and we pooled our collective savings. We knew of an artist, so we raised the money to press his CD. And once we had the CD, we realized we had to do something with these. We jumped in and figured it out and made a lot of calls and found distributors and a store. We just got some lucky breaks early on to the point where we had distributors and their attention, and it grew from there.
About how long ago was this and which of these companies came first?
JC:
This was Secretly Canadian in 1996. Our first release was an album called “Gloria Hole” by June Panic, which came out September of 1996. It just grew from there, to give you more in-depth background about what goes on here in Bloomington, Indiana. After a couple years of doing Secretly Canadian, we connected with Darius Van Arman who was running Jagjaguar Records by himself in Charlottesville, VA. We connected with him because we saw some early Jagjaguar releases in stores that were compared to Secretly Canadian artists, which made us intrigued. We got to know Darius, and in 1998, Darius moved Jagjaguar from Charlottesville to Bloomington to hang out with us and have a little brain trust of struggling labels. From there, things kind of happened organically. We also have Bellwether Manufacturing and SE Distribution running out of our office. Those came about organically because we realized we were paying too much to get our CD’s manufactured. So we did a bunch of research and cut out the middleman and started working with CD manufacturing plants directly. That’s pretty much how distribution came about, because we a) didn’t have distribution and b) the people we worked with weren’t paying, so we took matters into our own hands.
Fast forward to today- we run the companies Secretly Canadian, Jagjaguar, Dead Oceans, Bellwether Manufacturing and SE Distribution out of our offices.
You are a partner in all of these companies but what are your areas of expertise?
JC:
From the beginning, we all realized that we’re all partners and we all make macro decisions, but we have to specialize and have a division of labor. We found that pretty naturally, because we had people that were interested or had the expertise. Since there were four of us with four different backgrounds, we naturally went to our own positions. For the first eleven years I was the publicist for Secretly Canadian and Jagjaguar. Then as we hired more publicists, my role morphed. That’s when I got into the film and TV licensing. That happened out of necessity because we were getting a lot of inquiries and not really knowing what to do with them or how to handle them. I stepped up to learn how to do all that.
I am guessing that because the phone was ringing you were able to build relationships and did a handful of cold calling as well to build up a roster of people to place with? Is that how that worked?
JC:
Definitely. I did it the same way I built up the Rolodex of publicity contacts but with film and TV executives. It was figuring out who’s who and how to contact them.
You really had to build this from scratch.
JC:
Yeah, but I don’t know what else I was doing, so I figured I’d just jump in and make it work. The first six years of Secretly Canadian, I also had a full-time job. It was just a super hobby, because the label was also another 40 hours. It got to the point where something had to give, and I decided to follow rock and roll. It was really a tough decision because I was taking a large pay cut and jumping into the unknown, but I just knew it was something I wanted to do.
Musician Coaching: What attracts you to an artist that makes you consider putting their records out on either of the labels you work with? What do you look for in an artist?
JC: It’s a mixture of things that makes an artist attractive. The gateway is the music, and it has to be unanimous that we’re feeling the same about the music. There are times where someone is on the fence or didn’t like it, but there’s a due process for any band that someone really likes. We all have to connect on it. The magic combo is artists that make great music, aren’t afraid to work, achieve the things they want and just aren’t assholes. That’s kind of the way we look at it. We’ve been pretty fortunate with finding artists who have these qualities.
The way we look at it is we’re not in the business to release one record by a band and then try to cash in and walk away from it. There are a lot of labels that do that, and that’s not what we’re about. It’s a partnership. “We’ll bust our ass for you and this is what we can offer.” We don’t tell them this, but it’s an understanding, “We hope that you’ll bust your ass and do such and such thing. Don’t be afraid to tour, connect with your fans with your website or MySpace. Do things that bands should be doing if they want to get heard.” I think symbiotic relationships are ultimately the most successful.
How are you finding the role of being a label now that there are so many tools are in artists’ hands?
JC:
There are definitely bands that I don’t know why they come to us because they act like they don’t need us or necessarily want us, and that’s fine. There are plenty of bands that can do that. We’re really transparent and say, “This is who we are, this is what we offer, this is what we think we can do.”
In your particular case that’s your licensing and PR relationships. What do the others focus on?
JC:
We have robust and timely accounting. We’re very transparent. The steps we take can be seen by our artists. They get their statements from us, and they know what we spent and where we spent it and the money they made, where it’s all going. That’s a big thing. I think there are labels that don’t do well with accounting. We have in-house manufacturing and distribution, so we know they’ll get a quality product; their albums are going to look good and sound great. We also have a network to get their CD’s in stores or onto digital service providers.
I would guess you are getting good placement in the indie retailers that matter.
JC:
I think so. We’ve had relationships with these stores for over a decade now. That’s particularly good for us, because all members of the label are also project managers. We all have our own bands that we work with. If they have any questions or there’s any problem with the distribution, we can just walk over there and ask why there aren’t CD’s in a particular store, etc.
What advice would you give for artists looking to get more press and looking to get their material licensed?
JC:
I think for press, it’s easier now than ever. The whole blog explosion has definitely leveled the playing field a bit. First of all, I think it’s good for a band to be very realistic. If you think you recorded an album and now you’re going to be on the cover of Alternative Press, it doesn’t work that way. I personally think it’s easy for bands – especially unsigned bands – to create a ground swell that will attract the attention of labels, booking agents, promoters, bigger publications. I think that’s been the big revolution in media recently.
Do you think by going after enough attainable periodicals and blogs, someone can snowball that into getting bigger and better press and opportunities?
JC:
I think so. Especially f a band can couple that with being on the road a lot. It’s always good for a band to tour as much as they can and as much as they can afford. That’s where you’re going to connect with your audience. That’s what I want. If I hear a record I really like, I want to go see them and see how they do it live and get a sense of their personality. I think that’s what drives fans and what being a fan is. That’s how you attract them – by creating an attention. Blogs can do that, and if you have some blog in Minneapolis talking about your band and show up in a week or a couple days, it starts to connect. People remember your name and they tell their friends. I think the whole grassroots thing is incredibly important and very strong.
What about on the licensing front?
JC:
That’s a different beast. There are plenty of success stories of unknown bands getting key placements. With bigger magazines – if you’re shooting for Rolling Stone – you’re someone at the mercy of the editor. If the editor likes it, then he assigns it to a writer. I think it’s the same way with licensing to film and TV. You have to find the right music supervisor. They either have to really like it, or it just has to be the perfect song for the perfect scene. That’s the wild card with film and TV. It has to be right for the scene. It’s hard for some bands to understand that, and they ask, “How come we’re not on Grey’s Anatomy?”
I would imagine it’s a lot easier for you than for an artist doing this on their own, because you’re calling constantly and not just with one band’s worth of material.
JC:
Right. I also get a lot of searches for supervisors that will call looking for the perfect cue for a scene, and it’s incredibly specific. A lot of times, I just don’t have anything for that. 90% of the time it’s that way. That could be anything. But that connection is, you just have to get you music heard by the right people. Because when the right scene comes up and you have the perfect song for it, it’s going to happen. You just have to make sure they know to look for your song.
Any advice on doing that? Get your music heard in a way that’s not obtrusive?
JC:
Finding these people is not that hard – that’s what Google is for. There are hundreds of people selling mailing lists. I don’t know the validity of those places, but when I started, I went online and for $30 bought a mailing list that had music contacts of film production and TV production companies, or directly to music supervisors and just started sending them music. Sending the CD in the mail is not obtrusive at all because that’s these people’s job. Their job is to absorb as much music as they can so they can find a perfect home for it. They are actually seeking music, you just have to meet their demand. It’s obtrusive if you’re calling them every day saying, “Hey – place my music in Grey’s Anatomy.”
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Check out what Jonathan and his partners are up to at Jagjaguwar, Secretly Canadian, Dead Oceans, Bellwether Manufacturing and SC Distribution
