Posts Tagged ‘musician coaching’

I was lucky enough to be invited by Ariel Hyatt to watch Tom Jackson work with a local band in a studio in midtown a few weeks ago.  I have never seen anyone do what Tom does.  For lack of better words he is a live music producer.  He helps bands make emotional connections with their audience and either improves a band’s live performance or gives them a whole new perspective on how to make their live show work.  Tom has worked with Taylor Swift, Casting Crowns and Jars of Clay among others.

Musician Coaching:

Thanks again for taking the time out of your busy schedule to speak with me.  I get a great deal of requests from the people I work with to give them constructive criticism on their live performance but my suggestions are usually limited to taking the microphone off of the stand, move around more and remember to engage your audience.  You on the other hand have made helping a band with their live show an art form.  Please tell me in your words what it is that you do.

Tom Jackson:

I’m a live music producer.  I do very similar things to what are record producer does except I deal with the show.   It has to do with re-arranging the songs and creating moments. If you asked me in one sentence what the goal of my work is, it is to create moments in a musician’s shows.  How you create those moments can be verbal, visual, musical…  There is a bunch of different ways.  I have been fortunate how to figure that out and do it.

I’ll tell you what it is not too- it’s not choreography, it’s not drama, it’s not dance.  It’s not goofy stuff.

Musician Coaching:

What would you say, having done this for a number of years, that the top three show killing behaviors are and what is the philosophy you use in helping people to correct these behaviors?

Tom Jackson:

Not being teachable kills the show more than anything.  To me by far that is the biggest thing. The funny thing is that we have been trained in the music industry that of course when you go into the studio you get a producer, of course you get a bio or an EPK produced by professionals.  You get help every step of the way but when it comes to the show you are magically supposed to know how to do it because you are a performer or an artist and that’s a big killer because it’s not the case.

Musician Coaching:

That’s definitely a big one.  Do you run across an archetype?  Is it the musician just standing there gazing at their shoes or maybe failing to make eye contact?

Tom Jackson:

A big thing is an artist not being able to emotionally connect with their audience.  Everybody is communicating from stage- always.  The question is what are they communicating?  What they feel like they are communicating and what they are really communicating are very often two different things.  They don’t understand that non-verbal skills are important.  How you stand, where you stand, your countenance, your authority and who you are…  So the non-verbal skills are just randomly made up and sometimes artists copy other people who don’t know what they are doing.

Musician Coaching:

Interesting, that leads into my next question.  Sometimes I see people who are killing it live musically but it they are shy or introverted and it is apparent both on and offstage.  It is just obvious that they are not comfortable in their own skin or in the role they are playing onstage.  Unless you are Robert Smith from the Cure this kind of behavior can really work against you.  Does your work involve breaking people out of their shell?  I am guessing that would apply both on and offstage.  Can you offer any advice to people who might be in that situation?

Tom Jackson:

Yea, in fact it is one of the four areas that I work with when working with an artist.  It is the psychological, the emotional and spiritual part of who they are and who you are is more important that what you do.  It takes a relationship to be able to prod people and free them up.  What you want to do is to create freedom in the room, in a rehearsal room and then obviously in a venue that you are playing in so there can be an emotional love fest.  If you are bound up in your emotions or self conscious all the time- then it’s more than likely not going to happen.

Musician Coaching:

And this is something that you help people learn?

Tom Jackson:

Yes, in fact one of my biggest comments over the years has been that “Tom helped free me.”  It’s helping people deal with fear… It’s what I call authority.  Being able to have authority on stage – it’s not arrogance.  In fact, authority comes from humility.  I can’t teach authority but I can be a psychologist and help lead them to that place.  I can show them what IS working and through that help them gain more confidence and authority a process that hopefully perpetuates itself.  Hopefully they gain more and more and more and eventually this performer becomes a monster, in a good way.

Musician Coaching:

It sounds like some of what you do is guiding people to their strengths rather than “step this way” or “walk that way”…

Tom Jackson:

That’s the misconception of what I do.  That’s really only 10-15% of it.  The re-arranging of the songs, the psychology we have been talking about and the vision for the shows are more important.  One of the reasons artists do not succeed is because they have lost the vision for their shows.  They are just out playing songs and without vision you end up nowhere.  So it is much more than choreography.

Musician Coaching:

Let’s talk about arrangement…

Tom Jackson:

That is actually the thing that I spend more time on than anything.

Musician Coaching:

It makes sense that people would spend a great deal of time on arranging a song for radio but it doesn’t make sense that they wouldn’t spend time on arranging a song to go over well live.

Tom Jackson:

Yes, that’s exactly right.

Musician Coaching:

I also wanted to talk to you about the difference between large and small shows.  You help people prepare to play in front of big crowds, as that is the end game in your work, but can you explain what the difference would be in coaching someone to play in front of a large audience vs. a small audience?  Is there a difference in stage behavior when playing in front of 40 people at a club vs. playing a big shed?  Is the emotional connection you often speak about different in those two situations?

Tom Jackson:

Conceptually the answer is there is no difference.  You still need to make an emotional connection, technically there are still things you can do while performing, songs do need to be re-arranged for live performance and you still need a vision.  Yes I spend most of my consulting or producing is with acts that are signed but most of my teaching is for indies who are just coming up.

  Honestly, I do very little different with someone like Taylor Swift.  Sure I have more tools to play with, you know, most people don’t have a waterfall to fall under at the end of their set.  That’s not the norm… but the concept is the same.  The waterfall is the payoff.  We may not have a waterfall but what payoff can we use to get the response in a club with 40 people that will get a response in that room.  If you practice that…  I have never seen an artist who developed these concepts not grow.

Musician Coaching:

In watching you work you discussed the “cheese factor” it was great of you to point out that too much rehearsal and too much planning can backfire.  When people don’t have someone like you to give them feedback and are trying to improve their live show- how do they know when they have gone too far?  Is this something they have to test live?

Tom Jackson:

A lot of it has to do with testing things out live but when it comes to cheese factor there are two reasons you get cheese.  One is not enough rehearsal in other words you’ve got something in your head but it isn’t in muscle memory.  It looks like you are thinking about it and nobody wants to watch somebody think.  Thinking about smiling or thinking about raising their arms or walking to a certain place.  So in one way it’s not enough rehearsal.  The other side is when there is too much rehearsal.  Things can be so rehearsed that they become mechanical.  It’s about finding that balance…

Musician Coaching:

When watching you work recently I noticed that you went out of your way to coach the group to use the whole stage and you went as far as moving the monitors to give them more room.  Explain the logic of this if you could

Tom Jackson:

I try to get rid of the barriers between me and the audience and not just the barriers.  When I walk into a venue mostly everything is set up for the production people.  The second thing it is set up for is the artist and the third thing that it is set up for is the audience and that’s backwards.  It needs to be the audience first, the artist and then whoever is setting up the gear.  I fight for every inch I can so I can have an emotional connection with the audience.  I have played gigs where I have fought for an extra eight inches so I could get that much closer to the audience at the right time.

I’ll finish with this.  What make a good hotel great?  It’s the little things.  It’s not flying beds.  It’s fat towels.  It’s a phone by the toilet.  It’s a mint on the pillow.  It’s all the little things.  There is not much difference between a good hotel and a great hotel when it comes down to the basics – bed, TV, dresser, bathroom but – and this is for any artist reading this – who gets more money?

Musician Coaching:

So that’s the difference between the Holiday Inn and the Ritz Carlton.

Tom Jackson:

Totally and we have this routine of taking whatever comes out way and not going the extra mile and not learning the things we are talking about to make that difference.  Artists need to provide their audience with an experience to have an emotional connection, not something random.

You asked me earlier about mistakes artists make – every artist has experienced those moments on stage that are magical.  For some reason the planets align, you can actually hear the monitors and everything is working and there is a love fest in the room.  Here’s the problem- they don’t know why it happened.  The next night you go out and do the exact same thing and it won’t work and the artist doesn’t know why.  Without sounding arrogant, I know why.

Musician Coaching:

Thanks again for your time Tom, this has been great.

————-

If you would like to find out more about Tom’s DVDs and / or get some guidance from him on your live show please visit  www.onstagesuccess.com

I recently spoke with Josh Lamstein, a Managing Director of GF Capital. GF Capital a private equity fund focused on investments in media and branded consumer products. I know this seems like an odd interview for a music industry blog but I am often making the comparison of a band or an artist as a start up company and a record label or a publisher as a private equity fund or a venture capitalist. I am hopeful that gaining an understanding from Josh about how he and his fund select start up companies will help us understand how important self starting and building one’s own business is for an artist. For all intents and purposes Josh functions like an A&R person who is looking to invest in companies rather than artists.

Musician Coaching:
Josh thanks as always for your time. If you would, tell me in your own words what your job is about.

Josh:
My job is to evaluate businesses and industries and to figure out which industries that we want to invest in and within those industries which companies are the most exciting. In practical terms that means doing research on growth rates within an industry, finding out who the entrenched players are within an industry and determining where there might be gaps in their own strategies that could be exploited by smaller companies as GF tends to invest in smaller companies.

Musician Coaching:
Define what a smaller company is in your eyes?

Josh:
We tend to invest in companies that are 15-50 million dollars of annual revenue and 3-15 million dollars of EBITDA. For media / content oriented companies we focus on Intellectual property (music, video software etc).

Musician Coaching:
Now forgive me because as you know I’m not the guy who brings the macaroni to the Mensa meetings; would you say it’s an apt comparison that your function at GF is similar to that of an A&R executive at a record label or publisher except that you are looking for corporations rather than talent to invest in?

Josh:
Yes, that’s accurate.

Musician Coaching:
So in layman’s terms, in deference to myself not in deference to the reader, what is it about a corporation or a corporation’s financial health that gets your attention as a possible investment?

Josh:
Taking a step back- the most important thing, and this is really what our job is, is to assess the management team. So in the parlance of what you are comparing this to our job is assessing the people in the band themselves.

Musician Coaching:
I would guess this would also apply to a band’s employees or band manager or booking agent if we were to continue this analogy further…

Josh:
Absolutely. Companies are organisms and you need to ensure that the people who are directing this organism are the kind of people who are willing to accept defeat yet keep on going until they find the path to a successful outcome. So we look for…

Musician Coaching:
People with that kind of track record?

Josh:
People who are willing to eat glass if that’s what it would take to become successful. People who are really driven towards success and excellence in what they do…
So… What we look for in companies in the media industry is a margin profile that is very attractive. Meaning a company of interest to us has gross margins (profit per unit before expenses, overhead etc) that tend to be very high. If the gross margins aren’t high – we want to dig in and understand a bit about why that may be. Then we look underneath that to see if the management of the corporation paying themselves a great deal of money. Are these people driving the success of the business; does that success tie in to their equity value as opposed to their compensation? It is a question of if they are managing in a lean way.

Musician Coaching:
So how much a company would re-invest in its growth would be important to you.

Josh:
Yes, we tend to look for people who are focused on the long term as opposed to clipping the coupons so to speak.

Musician Coaching:
Tell me about your thoughts about the music business in general right now. You are clearly looking at music and media companies to invest in. Do you see anything (without divulging sensitive information) that you like or models that you think are working right now?

Josh:
We are interested in a variety of areas. The publishing arena is an area we are interested in and is a good private equity business. Number one, you own the Intellectual property. Two- we don’t have to make tremendous bets on the outcome given that the types of publishing libraries we are looking at, libraries that have a historical track record.

Musician Coaching:
I am going to switch gears for a moment. I know doing what you do people come to you as really new start up companies because you know your way around finance. As I’ve mentioned to you in the past I think most artists and bands are in that situation of being a brand new start up company. Given that, is there any general entrepreneurial advice you could give to bands / artists who in most cases is borrowing or investing their own money to make a product in a high risk business like music? Are there things you have seen that you would have people steer clear of?

Josh:
In the pure corporate world – the longer you are able to go without taking on a venture capitalist the better it is for your company. A venture capitalist tends to have a very different type of incentive. The VC is really looking for a home run and will run the business as hard as they can to get that home run.

Musician Coaching:
I would guess everyone is looking for a home run – is this a matter of timing does a venture capitalist need this home run by a certain deadline or…

Josh:
So it tends to be the case that there are many businesses without Venture capital they would perform in a solid if unspectacular way and that’s not appealing to a venture capitalist.

Musician Coaching:
Continuing the baseball analogy is it the difference between reliably making base hits or going for a home run and very possibly striking out? Meaning a venture capitalist will bet more and more risky in many cases than a company would if self funded?

Josh:
Yes, the venture capitalist portfolio will typically have something on the order of 15-20 companies. Of those 1-2 will be home runs in a good portfolio. The rest will be either complete wipe outs or marginal successes.

Musician Coaching:
So basically a small number of large successes will cover for a lot of misses. That sounds just like a major label.

Another question – is it so that the earlier in a company’s growth cycle that they partner with an investor, the more of a stake that investor is able to take?

Josh:
That’s correct. In a company you are giving up ownership for an artist I’m not sure how exactly it would translate.

Musician Coaching:
For an artist it could be relinquishing some publishing rights or just a split or percentage with a strategic partner that would be considerably less than if they were able to build their business more on their own. You have nothing to bargain with if you haven’t demonstrated your viability. Josh thanks again for your time.

Or is it great managers make great bands?  Chicken and the egg I suppose.

As some of you recall I interviewed Emily White of Whitesmith Entertainment about music and management not too long ago. She had just started working with a group called Family of the Year. Granted Emily is a gifted manager and got the band in front of the right people but I thought it would be interesting for everyone to see the progress they have made in the last few weeks. They are doing some interesting things to tie in show attendance with their new release and some cool promotion ideas.  I won’t tell if you decide to steal these ideas.

I suppose it might seem odd to interview a band that hasn’t made it but when I speak to people who have followings they tend to speak more about maintenance than building…

From Emily @ Whitesmith:

The band is releasing their debut EP, Where’s The Sun on their brand new imprint, Washashore, which will be available exclusively by donation on 9/22 at FamilyOfTheYear.Net and up on itunes/amazon via Tunecore, shortly after:

People who show up at the 9/16 Knitting Factory (LA) show will get an advance DL code for free (7:30 set time, fyi). The band also plays The Knitting Factory on 9/27.

After interest from various agents after playing only TWO shows, the band signed with Steve Ferguson at Paradigm on Wednesday. Steve immediately locked a support slot at The Troubadour (10/12) and The Great American Music Hall in San Fran (supporting World/Inferno Friendship Society) and is working on an East coast tour around CMJ.

The band will be playing the Whitesmith Entertainment/Indaba Music showcase at The Living Room at CMJ on 10.21 and Whitesmith/CASH Music party at Crash Mansion on 10.20.

To help fund the trip for CMJ, the band is doing an “Old-School Twitter” promotion. Next week, we are launching the EP promo page that will also allow fans to buy a postcard for $5.

The real postcard is a much better quality image

FOTY will send you a postcard from the road as a thank you to help fund their trip. However, before it gets popped in the mail, we will scan it and upload the various postcards online, so fans can look online where their piece of the tour story falls in the collection.

Also, we are collecting email addresses with Google Voice at shows. The band made this sign to show it off during their set.

I would like to say that this band is moving forward so quickly for three reasons:

1. They made incredible music. I say all the time “make great art.” We tend to get caught up in all of these business models, platforms, and strategies and sometimes I think both the artist and industry forget why were actually here.

2. They’ve been blessed with a team of volunteers and early supporters (not all Whitesmith) to help out with the band for the love of it. We couldn’t do it without them. But don’t over think this, it’s about 5 people total ranging from an 18 year old Boston University intern who is currently in classes and helps in his spare time.

3. The band all know their roles and are each bringing something to the table. Joe Keefe (lead vocal/guitar/piano) has his head in songwriting, that’s where it belongs. His brother Sebastian (drums/acoustic guitar/vocal) is the liaison from me to the other 5 members of the band. He makes sure everyone stays on the time line we set in place. Christina (keyboards) has a day job at a PR firm and helped to write the bio, skin the Twitter page, and runs the MS and FB page (so great when it’s genuinely the artist and not one of my peeps!). Vanessa (female lead) has been designing the EP and merch artwork as well as hooked up a film crew for their first show, who owed her dad a favor. Jamesy (electric guitar) is a sound guru and has been handling all of the mixing and mastering that we’d otherwise have to pay for, even though we self-recorded everything in their rehearsal space). And newest member Brent (bass) is a web designer. They are like trivial pursuit pieces of pie that all fit together perfectly. I am honored to work with Family Of The Year.

—————

The band also quickly wrote a song based on a Twitter trending topic (yesterday) RT @FamilyOfTheYear exclusive song for today’s trending topic: “When We Were Little”
#wheniwaslittle

I am sitting at the edge of the Grand Canyon with a teaspoon trying to fill it in. That’s what marketing and self-promotion can feel like in the digital age or at least, that’s the way it feels to me.

I walked into a cavernous Barnes and Noble last night. They just opened another location by me on East 86th street in New York. I can’t begin to describe how big it is. I’ve lived in Manhattan my entire adult life so I do a double take when I see wasted space- but this? This place is ridiculous. It completely freaked me out. I felt a primal fear that I haven’t felt since Sylvia Rhone (former CEO of Elektra) used to scream at me but that’s a whole other blog post. I’ve spent considerably more time than I originally thought I would writing and creating content for this website and to realize that this one store contained a million or more books and these were just the books that were deemed the best by major publishers meaning the total volume of writing out there is… staggering.

What could I possibly have to offer that wasn’t already written somewhere?

It made me think about the quality of what I write and the quality of my coaching.  You really have to be exceptional to make it these days.  It reminded me of a conversation I had with my friend Mark Hermann recently about “just because you can – should you?”

We were talking about music and how there were no more barriers to entry and how on the one hand – what a wonderful freedom! On the other hand – how can we hear any one thing if we are in a stadium full of people screaming and demanding to be heard? Would we know if one of these voices was the next Beatles? Probably not. I love that image and wish I could claim it as my own but it belongs to Mark and I think he’s right on. One of the larger music management companies in New York has a sign on the door that reads “It’s about the music, stupid.” I think we are very quick to forget that these days.

I have been consulting and coaching artists informally for years but have only really begun Musician Coaching as a business in the last month which is when this site went live. I help people make sure they are in all of the right places online and to make sure that their website accomplishes what it needs to accomplish. I help people by providing a critique of their audio and video materials and their marketing efforts, their live show and the way they approach the people who sit behind one of the many desks where dreams go to die that stand between them and opportunity.

Sometimes I need to spend more time telling people to continue to develop their product and how best to do that because it can be worth the wait. The Beatles wrote a hundred songs before you ever heard note one of their first record and had played covers for several years. R.E.M played pizza joints in Athens Georgia in complete obscurity for a long time. Peter Frampton toured non-stop for three years before recording Frampton comes alive.

I can wake up tomorrow, write and record a song and have it up on MySpace tomorrow but should I? I’m not saying there is anything wrong with doing so but I do think if you are just starting out you should have realistic expectations of your abilities and the level at which you expect people to respond.

Why doesn’t anyone care anymore? It is simply because there is too much mediocrity out there. I say this often “There is no one in the audience because everyone is on the stage.” Cheap recording gear and low or no cost international distribution are now tools that are in everyone’s hands. The music business is no longer an exclusive club – if you’ve got an Internet connection and a mic in jack you can now be considered a member.

“It’s about the music, stupid.” It’s a great reminder. All I am suggesting is write 100 songs and put the best one of those 100 out for people to hear. I am suggesting that if you have to cut your teeth playing live and are struggling making it solo- try to do it as a sideman or a hired gun. 99% of the “overnight success” stories you hear involve someone working their ass off behind the scenes for a long long time before they broke. If you want a good read- check out the Hendrix book “Room Full of mirrors” – Jimmy played 2nd fiddle to a ton of people before going out on his own.

In America there seems to be this feeling that everyone gets their 15 minutes or worse yet- everyone deserves their 15 minutes. We have been sold this vision that at any moment fame and wealth may strike without working for it. There is something tattooed on the back of our brains that somewhere out there Ed McMahon is looking for each and every one of us with an over-sized check and that the rest of our lives will be taken care of from that moment on… I’m all for the Lotto slogan “Hey, you never know” but I’m sure as hell not depending on it.

What is my point? My point is, and I don’t exclude myself, we have to spend less time on marketing and more time making sure we have products that are worth marketing. There is more music out there than ever before- everyone you know is a “musician” or at least a hobbyist and consumers are very jaded. Before shotgunning your product out there and whipping your fans into a frenzy about your new release you had better make damn sure that you have a product that is not only competitive but stronger than most of the stuff you see and hear or it’s over before it starts.

Below are some examples that were sent to major label A&R people recently. How much time and effort would have been saved if these people got feedback from anyone, even their friends and family before putting this out into the world? These are extreme examples but if you wonder why music business people are jaded…take a listen.

Work More on your craft#1

Work More on your craft#2

For those that don’t know Andrew W.K. is a gifted multi-instrumentalist, performer, inspirational speaker, TV host and more recently a club owner. He is probably best known for his single “Party Hard” off of the Album “I get Wet” which was released in 2001 on Island Def Jam. What many people don’t know is in spite of the single “party hard” which became a drinking anthem, there is an enormous amount of depth to Andrew as a performer and a person.

The only comparison I can make is what happened to the Beastie Boys after releasing “fight for your right to party” and the world wrote them off as a one trick pony before they were rediscovered by the public at large as artists of real depth. The difference between the two career paths was that the Beastie Boys released “check your head” with the help of huge corporations in an era when there was still a clear mechanism to break artists. Andrew is out there converting people fan by fan in a new world.  He has been great and finding alternative ways of promoting himself on TV, through speaking engagements and through collaborations with other talented musicians. I learned that Andrew has a very different strategy than most artists…

Musician Coaching:
Andrew thanks for taking the time to speak with me. First of all, you have a record coming out very soon?

AWK:
Yes, that’s correct on Tuesday, September 8th.

Musician Coaching:
Tell me about how you built your following and were first noticed by Island / Def Jam in the mid to late 90s. Obviously people found you to be talented but there must have been a great deal of self promotion involved. Tell me about that…

AWK:
I was fortunate enough to meet several people in New York who were willing to help pass my music out and one of these guys was a man named Spencer Sweeney who I now work on the nightclub with. He helped me get my first few shows in New York and was extremely friendly and outgoing and through him I met his cousin Matt Sweeney who became my first manager that had real connections and vision and experience. It was exciting because just starting out there was nowhere to go but up. Matt got the music to Gary Hellsinger at Universal publishing who I am still working with and Gary signed me and Matt also passed the music to Lewis Largent who had just left MTV for Island / Def Jam and Lewis signed me there. Through Matt Sweeney in the course of about two months it all got going.

I don’t know if this would work for everybody but for my personal experience – I never shopped around and I haven’t really done that in general. I have had more of a faith… When an opportunity came to me I just said yes. A lot of people told me to get second opinions or that I should try to start a bidding war, back when that was more common, or I should try to not make friends with these people and not just go with the first person who wants to work with you.

All of that makes sense in theory. I do agree with that idea of getting a diverse range of opportunities to choose from but with my career for some reason I was just so excited about doing things and moving forward that taking time to decide what to do or which one to choose didn’t appeal to me and still doesn’t. I would rather be actively working and making something than deciding what to make or with whom to make it. Somehow the inertia of doing that makes opportunities come to you in a very natural way. This way you don’t have to be wary of opportunities- you can decide that these opportunities wouldn’t have presented themselves if they weren’t meant to be. That’s not to say I do every single thing but I’d say I do 90% of the opportunities that I am presented with…

When I first started playing with my band, I hadn’t even met them. I trusted a drummer who I had written a letter to, having never met him, and asked him to be in my band. He agreed and formed the rest of my band. Part of me realized it was kind of crazy to put together a band with people I didn’t know but there was something driving that whole era when I was first starting that just took away that kind of worry if this was the right choice. You can always wonder if it was right choice but I’m extremely grateful that these people came into my life and that I took these opportunities when they came up and I didn’t second guess them and I didn’t listen to other people who told me not to do them. A lot of the time I just did the opposite of what people told me to do.

Musician Coaching:
If you were starting over today, given that the world communicates completely differently than when you were first starting out, what do you think you would be doing differently with all of the online tools available or what are you doing differently now? How are you keeping in touch with fans? Can you tell us some things that have worked and maybe some things that didn’t work?

AWK:
I was fortunate enough like a lot of people my age to be able to come up when there weren’t computers like there are now but young enough to appreciate them when they did come around and that’s a unique position to be in. Some of my friends who are maybe ten or so years older the computer is still newer to them and the people ten years younger than me didn’t really experience a time when there weren’t computers or at least they had a lot more time with them. I’ve always really believed in the computer as a tool and a creative instrument as much as a paintbrush is a creative instrument or a guitar is a creative instrument but on a much more powerful level. I enjoy the ways a computer can help an artist to make material, to distribute material and to interact with people about their material.

At first it was kind of strange because it (the online experience) didn’t seem to exist in a real way but the feelings that can be had do exist and the experiences DO exist. So even if it is not a physical copy of a CD or a physical location outside of a computer screen the sensations that I was experiencing and am experiencing and other people are experiencing- those are real. You can listen to a song on Vinyl or over the Internet and sure there are variations in sound quality and texture and color but if the melody of a song moves you it is going to move you either way. I guess I am a big believer in the computer as a way to expand humanity.

Musician Coaching:
What specifically are you doing to engage your fans. I noticed that you are really good at getting back to everybody. Is that what you feel your responsibility is to your fans or…tell me more about what you are doing online.

AWK:
Part of what Andrew W.K. is about is being available and accessible and present and around. It’s a friendly experience. There are all kinds of performers for whom it makes sense to not be as available and I respect that as well. My interactions are more about celebration and friendship and that really lends itself well to the Internet. The Internet is a social phenomenon in so many ways and things like MySpace and Twitter are just perfect. Before those things were really up and running as they are now I was using my website to answer questions from fans and doing everything I could to make it seem like we were in it together. If that works for a band I think it’s great but it doesn’t make sense for every artist. If it does work though, boy, it’s really powerful.

Musician Coaching:
Could you tell me, having been on both sides of the label fence, the pros and cons of being on a label vs. being on your own? What are some of the struggles on either side?

AWK:
Well I really like working with people. Working with anyone is great whether it a band member, a friend or a large record label or a large group of people working together. I was warned that I shouldn’t be friends with the people I worked with, I should keep it on a business level but from my experience when you are working with someone everyday on something you are going to become friends no matter what unless you really don’t get along and in that case you probably shouldn’t be working together anyway. It makes it a lot more fun when it feels like you are part of a team. Ultimately you are all going after the same result and that is a very thrilling and satisfying life experience to have- I hope everybody gets to have that feeling even if it is a sports team. I really like working worth labels but I really like working on my own too.

Musician Coaching:
Speaking of teamwork, let’s talk a bit about your manager Pete who I like and admire a great deal. I notice that you guys have a very different dynamic than most artists and managers – he seems to be more of a peer and collaborator on your music, your marketing and your image than a traditional manager. Would you say that this is unique to both of you or that this is something that this type of relationship is becoming more prevalent in the music business?

AWK:
From my experience not having seen more working relationships there are all types of managers just like there are all different types of record producers. There are record producers who come in and don’t play any music know nothing about music but comes in and says “this sounds good” or “that doesn’t sound good” to me and then there are the kind of producers who can play every instrument on the album and co-write the songs with the musicians. Much like that there are managers who check in on their artists and say “having fun? Okay good, I’ll see you later” it’s almost like they are just there and then there are managers who can really craft the entire idea of what the performer is going to do. They can be so creative that they are almost the artists themselves.

What motivated me to work with Pete was that he looked at Andrew W.K. as entertainment not music and that was the feeling I was having at that time. I didn’t want to just play music- I wanted to be in show business. Pete has helped me learn that there is a difference between someone who is a musician and someone who is an entertainer. Learning that I wanted to be an entertainer was extremely liberating. On the one hand I got this sense of freedom and possibility because I realized I could do anything because so much falls in the realm of entertainment. On the other hand there was a great focus because allowed everything to be very broad but gave me a sense of purpose that I had not previously had.

Musician Coaching:
I recently read that you have just started a label.

AWK:
Yes, I wanted to have the ability to work with other people on music and have a place to release it. I had been working with others and producing other artists and that’s what started the idea of having a label. I am very fortunate to be partnered with Cargo records for manufacturing and distribution. My new record will be coming out on this label as well.

Musician Coaching:
W would you say it is that you do differently that has made you successful? How are you able to open so many doors in TV and press? Is it just that you are easily bored and always seeking out new and interesting (press worthy)? Also how do you manage all of your varied projects – do you find that they help or hinder your music?

AWK:
It does seem that I am busier than ever but the varied projects I do seem to tie in to one another and feed each other. It takes away the feelings of anxiety that I am doing too much. Because of the fact that I enjoy all of the things I am doing and because they all do relate in terms of entertainment. It comes back to the inertia I spoke of earlier that makes it not so overwhelming. I am always trying to broaden myself even if it can feel like contradicting myself and sometimes it can be painful. It can feel like going against some kind of personal integrity. At times we can mistake something for integrity that is actually a fear or a self imposed limitation. So I try to do things that can be very scary and every time I’ve done it- it has opened up new opportunities.

It also helps to be nice. If you are easy to work with… That is probably the number one reason I am still working today.

Musician Coaching:

Well, I always liked you.

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Follow Andrew on Twitter

Check out his new record

Neil Patel is widely considered an Internet marketing genius.  Those who know me well know I say the word genius a great deal but I am being completely sarcastic.  I would not be sarcastic at all when using that term referring to Neil.

By the age of 21 Neil was named a top blogger by Technocrati and one of the top influencers on the web according to the Wall Street Journal.  He has founded two Internet companies, Crazy Egg and KISSmetrics and through those companies he has helped major corporations like AOL, General Motors and Viacom with their web strategies.  I first came across Neil on his blog Quicksprout.com.

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A side note, in April of 1985 I was about halfway through completing Pitfall II and listening to a lot of Van Halen.  Neil was born in April of 1985…  I am having trouble wrapping my mind around this but I am also beyond flattered that he would take the time to answer some questions.
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Neil Patel

Musician Coaching:
Neil thanks again for taking the time to speak with me.  I wanted to speak with you because of your background with start-up companies (which I often compare to developing artists) and because you have done a wonderful job marketing your companies and yourself online.  Most artists / bands out there are just struggling to be heard.  Bearing in mind that having great content is the X factor that is completely up to the musicians themselves; what would you say are absolute requirements when selecting a domain name and trying to get relevant traffic to their websites?

Neil:
I recommend selecting the name of your band. If you can’t get that, then it’s going to be a tough road ahead.  In addition to that, I would also buy the domain names for each of the band members.  If for some unlucky reason you can’t get your band name, I would recommend buying it from whoever owns it. Just don’t tell them that it is the name of your band or else they may ask for a bit more.
As for relevant traffic consider leveraging popular music sites like MySpace and some of the websites listed here:

*** Note – the linked list is a bit out of date, as you will see if you explore it.  Some of these companies have changed business models or closed all together.  I would recommend checking out the sites from that list that still work and adding ReverbNation & IndabaMusic ***

Musician Coaching:
Are there things that should be avoided at all costs, online strategies that could damage a company / band’s online presence or that just aren’t effective?

Neil:
Spending any money on marketing should be avoided. Especially if you are a new band, you can always put your money better to use. Go after all of the grass root marketing before you spend money on advertising.

Musician Coaching:
You have run Internet marketing companies in the past.  In terms of SEO, what percentage of the work would you say is on-site vs. off-site?  Are the basics making sure that everything on-site is correctly tagged and the keywords highlighted in the right order for search engines?  Is the off-site as simple as creating new content and having link-backs?

***Note – if you don’t know about SEO now is the time to learn***

Neil:
The most important part of SEO is link building (off-site). The more websites that link to yours, the more search engine traffic you will receive.  As for on page SEO there are a lot of basic things to consider. But instead of going through each of them, I rather point you out to a well-written white paper called the Beginners Guide to SEO:

And as for link building tactics, I would consider cross promoting your website with other local bands. Writing good content is also a good strategy, but for a band releasing your music for free online may be a better strategy.

Musician Coaching:
Before there is significant traffic on your site providing you  analytics and metrics to look at, how do you go about finding the audience for your companies and / or your companies clients, is their a science to this?  What methods do you use to size up the competition?

Neil:
There is a science behind measuring your audience. I wish I could explain it in a few paragraphs or even in a few pages, but it just isn’t possible. Instead I recommend reading: Web Analytics – An Hour a Day.

Musician Coaching:
… it’s a great book.

Neil:
A good way you can size up your competition is through sites like Alexa, Compete, and Quantcast. These 3 sites will give you a good understanding of how much traffic your competition is receiving to their website.

Musician Coaching:
Your last few ventures have been very data oriented.  Above and beyond determining what online content or marketing strategies were effective for your company – what is the next frontier, how are pioneers using this data today and / or the rest of going to use this data in the future?

Neil:
I think the future is giving customers actionable data. There are tons of business intelligence and analytics solutions that spit out data, but consumers are confused about what to do with it.  With my new company, KISSmetrics, our goal is to provide consumers with actionable data. The stuff that tells you how to improve or grow your web based business/site.

Musician Coaching:
Given that some of the most important content that artists will have is rich media (photos, audio and video) – does this alter an online marketing strategy?  Are the recommendations for making sure this data is found above and beyond alt tagging / making sure the associated meta-data is intact?

Neil:
Yes, it does alter your strategy. Because of all the rich content you have, you can promote your content through sites many businesses can’t leverage.

You can upload your band photos to social photo sites like Flickr.
You can upload your videos to sites like YouTube.
You can upload your audio to social networks like MySpace and Facebook.

The possibilities are endless; you just have to get creative.

If you do leverage these social sites, make sure you don’t just add your videos and photos to these sites. You need to tag them with the appropriate keywords. Not just your band name, but also popular terms that are related to your music.

Most importantly, with every photo or video make sure you are using an attractive title that describes your content as well as a keyword rich description (don’t spam, but use keywords when it makes sense).

Musician Coaching:
There is so much out there on online marketing and SEO.   Are there books or blogs that you think have superior information?

Neil:
I am not a fan of books on SEO because the information in the book can get outdated pretty quick. I would consider reading:
SEObook – one of the best blogs when it comes to SEO advice
Search Engine Land – general news and tips on search engines.
SEOmoz – another blog with good SEO tips.

Musician Coaching:
Last question, if you had a group together and were trying to get their music heard online and offline what would your (very basic) strategy be for getting heard?  I know the core music business isn’t your expertise but the music business is disarray at the moment.  I figure you might have some great ideas.

Neil:
I would first create band pages with my music on all of the major social networks. After I have done that I would go to all of the other popular bands that are similar and make them my friends.  And lastly, I would then interact with other bands through their social profiles. I would do this through commenting, which is a great way to drive their visitors back to my band profile page.

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I would like to thank Neil again for his time.  Please visit his blog Quicksprout for some amazing business advice and to learn more about his story.